Liquidity of pre-1933 european coins?

[digory]

I'm new to gold investing and new poster to GIM. I have a question about the liquidity of pre-1933 european coins.

Centennial Precious Metals (http://usagold.com) is saying that bullion may be confiscated by the US Gov't. again one day, and that many of their buyers have half of their portfolio in pre-1933 coins, which hopefully will not be confiscated, due to precedent.

The european coins are cheaper than US coins, but still have good gold content, so that's what they recommend (in brilliant uncirculated).

In their report on confiscation, the question is asked, "What about liquidity?" Answer: "These items also track the gold price and are liquid nearly anywhere in the world.

I don't have the experience to know this, but are they liquid? (I would guess they're not as liquid as bullion.)

Btw, anyone have any experience with CPM, or have any other suggestions for a dealer? (I don't have a local dealer.)

Of course, I could just refuse to turn in my bullion, since they wouldn't know I had it. But then, you can't get rid of it either. I don't really want to appear as a criminal, unless it's my last option. But I don't want to throw away money on numismatics, either. The gov't may decide to confiscate them as well.

Thanks!

[Bullionaire]

Do not sweat the confiscation.......your biggest concern with pre 1933 foreign gold is when you cash it in.....will the Dealer be knowledgable enuff to know what it is and content?? Many small town dealers know squat about foreign coins......

[RossL]

I have bought some coins from Mr. Kosares and CPM. He is a broker, he doesn't actually have inventory at his office. The coins get shipped from a bullion bank somewhere else. On one order it was shipped by registered mail from ScotiaMocatta after 5 or 6 weeks.

MK's sidekick Randy (towncrier) kicked me out of their U**gold forum in 2001 and I haven't purchased from him since that year.

I believe in a well diversified portfolio, don't buy all pre-1933. Buy some Eagles and Maples. Buy silver and maybe some numismatics. Kosares makes a high markup on pre-1933s so that is why he promotes the confiscation aspect.

The world is a different place now than 1933. If they tried to confiscate again, most of the bullion would be sent Fed-Ex out of the country overnight. They wouldn't get anything except what people foolishly stored in bank safety deposit boxes.

As for liquidity, you can get a little over spot by selling on eBay. You will lose the premium, which is substantial. I plan on not selling pre-1933 until gold is in the thousands. :D

RossL

[Orson]

As with anything else (stocks, real estate, cars), liquidity is determined by volume. The more there is, the easier it is to trade. Almost by definition, rare items are illiquid.

Centenial seems unique in their push for pre-1933 numismatics. Although many dealers buy/sell pre-1933 coins, it seems that only Centenial pushes them so hard.

Regardless, I think that if you believe the argument for holding numismatic, there is a far cheaper way to do so: buy plain old American Eagles, which are defined by law as numismatic. This is a little known legal detail. Read more about it in this thread:
Thread link (http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=10076)

If you want even more "numismatic" protection, get a brand new American Eagle and get it graded/slabbed for just a few dollars more as an MS69.

Personally, I agree with RossL above. The world is a different place now. To add another possible example, if the gov't ever tries to confiscate gold again, you can count on various extreme-left or extreme-right political organizations to take it to the Supreme Court on your behalf and thus at least postpone the confiscation long enough for you to get at your stash.

[Ageka]

On most European gold coins there is NO premium over bulk gold
In Belgium you can walk into any money exchange agent and walk out with Belgian 20 Franks, Dutch guilders, French 20 Francs angels, napoleons,Suisse 20 Francs, English pounds old or new etc most in uncirculated condition or near


http://www.munters.be/servlet/javaparser.class?pgm=lst_or_new&lg=nl

[AuNuggets]

Centennial is a borderline "farce" in much of it's propaganda pushing high mark-up pre-1933 European gold coins over other more popular and much more liquid bullion coins such as Krugerrands, Maple Leafs, and U.S. Gold Eagles. They buy the european fractionals at very little to no (or negative = under spot) mark-up and then harp on the advantages they provide in any possible future confiscation of gold. It's more BS than fact.

Recently there was an elderly lady who had bought what appeared to be a good quantity of pre-'33 from CPM, sat back and watched the spot of price gold rise significantly, only to still be offered less than she had paid for her "stash" when it was offered back to CPM for liquidation. This story was related right on the USAG forum, only to be summarily deleted in short order to avoid the embarassment factor to CPM.

Contrary to what they may want potential clients to believe, they are a high-end retailer of PM products, coming nowhere close to the discount price levels of other dealers such as Tulving. If CPM were aboveboard in their dealings, I'm sure they would have no problem with price comparisons with other dealers. But just mention or link even the remotest mention of another dealer or even link to a page that links to another page that links to another dealer, and the plug is immediately pulled.

Caveat any dealings with any company who plays the markets with YOUR money rather than operating their business out of their own pocket !! There is good reason that it takes them "weeks" to deliver the goods.......

[HistoryStudent]

I'm new to gold investing and new poster to GIM. I have a question about the liquidity of pre-1933 european coins.

Centennial Precious Metals (http://usagold.com) is saying that bullion may be confiscated by the US Gov't. again one day, and that many of their buyers have half of their portfolio in pre-1933 coins, which hopefully will not be confiscated, due to precedent.

The european coins are cheaper than US coins, but still have good gold content, so that's what they recommend (in brilliant uncirculated).

In their report on confiscation, the question is asked, "What about liquidity?" Answer: "These items also track the gold price and are liquid nearly anywhere in the world.

I don't have the experience to know this, but are they liquid? (I would guess they're not as liquid as bullion.)

Btw, anyone have any experience with CPM, or have any other suggestions for a dealer? (I don't have a local dealer.)

Of course, I could just refuse to turn in my bullion, since they wouldn't know I had it. But then, you can't get rid of it either. I don't really want to appear as a criminal, unless it's my last option. But I don't want to throw away money on numismatics, either. The gov't may decide to confiscate them as well.

Thanks!


Next year when Bush prints over two trillions for the war and your US dollars fall some 20% that year alone in buying power we'll all wish we had those tomorrow dollars today with gold and silver so hammered down.

Besides gold and silver are the ultimate currency with no paper promise to pay. Fiat currencies have a great record of failure, yes, 100% guaranteed!
The poor Jews with ENOUGH gold were able to get away in the 1940s. The ultimate currency talks. I don't think the 1923 German Reichmarks, nor the 1925 German Rottenmarks, were worth anything back then.

Buy cheap: buy right now.