The U.S Constitution On Money,Silver And Gold

[Silver Gorilla]

The U.S Constitution On Money,Silver And Gold . I was reading the Constitution and it hit me like a brick man O man read what i have to say about the Constitution, What does the Constitution say regarding our money? Is what the Constitution says about money being strictly interpreted and adhered to as the President supposedly wants?

Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 of the Constitution states: "The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."

Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: "No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt."

Article I, Section 8, Clause 2 states that: "The Congress shall have Power...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States."

:character Correct me if I'm wrong here, but printing paper fiat Federal Reserve Notes (current dollar bills) does not appear to be the same as the Constitution granting Congress the power to coin money. Nor does accepting paper fiat dollar bills sound like the disability of the Constitution to make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt. And the power granted to Congress to borrow money is not the same as the power to create money, or to loan money. All in all, it appears that Congress, and The Supreme Court, and the executive branch are all missing the written word of the Constitution regarding our money and monetary system. If more evidence is needed the Coinage Act, 1792 (The Mint Act) definitely supplies it. "DOLLARS OR UNITS - each to be of the value of a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts of a grain of pure silver, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver." Seems very clear and plain to me: our money is to be in SILVER coin. The unit of account was called a dollar. The dollar was defined as a specific weight of silver - the value of a Spanish milled dollar as was then current. Since there has never been a constitutional amendment to change the above - it still stands as The Supreme Law of The Land. Which naturally begs the question...... is the Constitution being adhered to regarding our monetary system, which presently consists of paper fiat Federal Reserve Notes?

Amendment VII. In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved…
The STANDARD of this system is the Silver Dollar – 371.25 grains of fine silver – a SPECIFIC WEIGHT OF SILVER, as in Honest Weights and Measures.

There was no gold dollar at this time, only an amount of gold exchangeable for a silver dollar according to the exchange rate of 15 to 1.
So you all can see that "SILVER" is Real money... NOT gold
You know now knowing the trueth about our Government, And what it is doing to our Land of freedom. I got sick very sick......
Jees so looking at it in a new way and the widely accepted belief that originally the United States was on a monometallic gold standard is incorrect. The idea that Congress had originally ever issued a gold dollar or that the Constitution ever granted Congress such power is also incorrect.

The first (and only) monetary standard was a "Silver standard" that defined the dollar as a specific weight of silver, as well as establishing that the dollar was the money or unit of account. However, a bimetallic monetary system of coinage was also established by the Constitutional mandate to Congress to “coin Money, regulate the Value thereof.”

The word “regulate” means to “adjust”, as in one thing to another – which in the use of coins refers to systems of weights and measures and the regulation of such weights and measures to the standard, which is the “measure” they are to be regulated to or against.

As stated in the Coinage Act of 1792 – Section 11 introduces an exchange ratio of 15 to 1, according to weight. Therefore, although a dollar was defined as 371.25 grains of silver, gold exchanged for a dollar at 24.75 grains of gold (10 x 371.25 divided by 15).:character

Also, Section 9 of the act defined the Eagle as containing two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold.
This is realy killing me. Why are the fed's messing up the Constitution.....Why are they keeping something so secretiv about Silver.:character

[Tn...Andy]

I love the Coinage Act of 1792, but you do realize that any act of Congress can be changed at any time, right ?.......just like the Coinage Act has been several times....as Congress has the power to coin money, they can "coin" it out of anything.....copper, nickel, glass, plastic, whatever.

Section 10 is a limit on STATE powers.....and Constitutionally, State can ONLY use gold and silver in payment of STATE debts. It doesn't say WHERE the State is to get that or in what form it must be. The State could pay a debt in Kruggerands, I guess, if the payee would accept them, and that would be Constitutional.....but a State CAN'T use anything else, even if Congress declares it money.

I have often asked the question as to WHY a State employee or vendor to a State for goods or services doesn't just buck up, point to Art1Sec10, and demand payment in gold or silver. SEEMS like a pretty slam dunk case to me.

[Silver Gorilla]

I love the Coinage Act of 1792, but you do realize that any act of Congress can be changed at any time, right ?.......just like the Coinage Act has been several times....as Congress has the power to coin money, they can "coin" it out of anything.....copper, nickel, glass, plastic, whatever.

Section 10 is a limit on STATE powers.....and Constitutionally, State can ONLY use gold and silver in payment of STATE debts. It doesn't say WHERE the State is to get that or in what form it must be. The State could pay a debt in Kruggerands, I guess, if the payee would accept them, and that would be Constitutional.....but a State CAN'T use anything else, even if Congress declares it money.

I have often asked the question as to WHY a State employee or vendor to a State for goods or services doesn't just buck up, point to Art1Sec10, and demand payment in gold or silver. SEEMS like a pretty slam dunk case to me.So you and I know exactly what will happen to Silver and Gold prices if we all demand payments in Silver or Gold from our Governments or banks. We just need to point to the lovely,Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: "No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit;and make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt."
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[mjk1971]

So you and I know exactly what will happen to Silver and Gold prices if we all demand payments in Silver or Gold from our Governments or banks.

Obviously, you have little experience trying to get government agencies to do ANYTHING even current laws say they should do, let alone demanding they give you silver or gold for payment!

Half of them wouldn't understand your question/demand, and the other half would call law enforcement.

[Silver Gorilla]

Obviously, you have little experience trying to get government agencies to do ANYTHING even current laws say they should do, let alone demanding they give you silver or gold for payment!

Half of them wouldn't understand your question/demand, and the other half would call law enforcement.
:haha: I wounder what will happen if i realy went out thier, and demand i get payed in Silver or Gold would i realy go to jail.:haha: WAAW May be you will see me on CNN or Fox-Tv :D :coolbeer:

[TonyG]

The Fed is simply 'International Bankers', and they want to be the ones to regulate the money for their profit. Even when these articles were drafted, International bankers were not in favor and fought to get inroads into the system. Fractional Reserve Banking became a problem of the early 19th century. Andrew Johnson held the bankers at bay as well as he could and Lincoln fought them also. Soon after Abe's death, they bagan getting a stronger foothold into the American scene. I think they were known as the 'national bank' then but they were not organized until the early 20 century.

The early 1900's had several very deep and sinister conspiracy's that worked along side and very closely to the high govt offices. Paul House, Paul Warburg and Untermyer were parts of various arms of conspiracies and many traced themselves back to the Rothschilds of Europe. This is according to men like Henry Ford, Charles Lindenburg, (forget the congressman from Pa) and Eustace Mullins. Mullins book on the subject http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm is well researched but is not without opposition. http://www.usagold.com/federalreserve.html

[The Great Ag]

I have often asked the question as to WHY a State employee or vendor to a State for goods or services doesn't just buck up, point to Art1Sec10, and demand payment in gold or silver. SEEMS like a pretty slam dunk case to me.

The state is under no obligation to "pay" anything. Matter of fact, no one can "pay" anything anymore.

The best anyone can do is "discharge" a debt. FRNs work nicely in this capacity. This has been the case since 1933 when gold was taken away by the great communist FDR during his reign.

The debt still exists, but the legal obligation to that debt has been removed.

The Great Ag

[Silver Gorilla]

The state is under no obligation to "pay" anything. Matter of fact, no one can "pay" anything anymore.

The best anyone can do is "discharge" a debt. FRNs work nicely in this capacity. This has been the case since 1933 when gold was taken away by the great communist FDR during his reign.

The debt still exists, but the legal obligation to that debt has been removed.

The Great Ag

Can you please explain (The U.S Constitution) just a little more on Art1Sec10.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: "No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt."
MINDE BOGGLING

[The Great Ag]

Can you please explain (The U.S Constitution) just a little more on Art1Sec10.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: "No State shall...coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt."
MINDE BOGGLING

Hey, Silver Gorilla:

The answer is long so bear with me. If I write anything inaccurate, I'm sure a fellow GIMer will correct me.

Prior to the Constitution, and I believe the Articles of Confederation, the Colonies were minting and printing their own money. The lure of the printing press was too strong; in some Colonies, Rhode Island, I believe, had over 1500% inflation.

The Founding Fathers experienced the difficulties of the rampant printing press and to protect against this abuse wrote two clauses into the Constitution. Article 1 section 10 which you have provided and Article 1 Section 8 subparagraph 5

The Powers of Congress shall have the power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:


Article 1 section 10 keeps the several States from running the printing press or debasing the currency in any way (from the abuses of history, the Founding Fathers saw this as a good thing). And Congress was to regulate the value of coinage and fix a standard of weights and measures.

These two articles, the Founding Fathers thought, would insure against fiat money abuse. They were right for awhile, but a huge loophole was left wide open. Some argue on purpose, but that is another thread.

Article 1 Section 8 subparagraph 2 states Congress has the power to:

Borrow money on the credit of the United States.

Therein lies the loophole which was taken adavantage by the money mongers which ultimately became the federal reserve bank.

More history. Between 1851 and 1907 there were several significant bank runs (PANICS) that threatened to ruin the banking industry. Ofcourse, the public was always blamed, but in truth it was the practices of the bankers themselves. Banks were not required to have 100% backing of specie to currency, i.e. the equivalent of gold or silver to the amount of notes in circulation. Laws were structured so that a bank may need to keep only 25% gold and silver in relation to the amount of notes circulating. There were extreme abuses. In western banks it was not that uncommon to have $40 worth of gold and silver backing over $10,000 worth of circulating notes. Who profits from this?

People knew that paper was only good as long as they could redeem for the metal. In a panic, they lined up at the bank to exchange or withdraw gold and silver. It was never long before the bank had to shut its doors and reorganize. It was natural that bank panics would occur in a system that allowed less than 100% backing. Was this by design or merely an accident?

The last panic occurred in 1907, and it affected many banks in New York and as far away as Pennsylvania. The major bankers, Morgan, Chase, et al banded together with the fed gov't to stem the current panic. President Wilson ordered a commission to find out what happened a recommend solutions so that this type of panic never happens.

Follow along, SG, it gets a little tricky here. The Constitution clearly states ALL DEBTS SHALL BE PAID IN GOLD OR SILVER. What happens if you do not have gold or silver to pay a debt? What can a person do? Make a fiat form of money to replace the faulty monetary system.

That is what happened. And here is where it gets tricky. Many people say that FRNs violate the Constitution as they are not backed by gold and silver, and all debts must be paid in gold in silver, so how can I pay a debt with a FRN?

FRNs DO NOT violate the Constitution. Remember Congress has the poweer to Borrow money on the credit of the United States. FRNs are borrowed into existence, either by the fed gov't or by you and me through commercial banks. It is impossible to pay a debt with a debt. If you do work for me, let's say, you lay a concrete walkway, would you accept an IOU for payment? Probably not, as what can you do with that IOU? The gov't rewrote the laws. Rather than pay a debt, FRNs discharge that debt.

Webster's defines discharge as, "5. to relieve oneself of (an obligation, burden, etc.)."

By discharging a debt, you no longer have the obligation to pay that debt. The debt still exists, your obligation to pay it has been relieved. The debt still exists. The gov't, by use of the FRN, has replaced the debt with itself (another debt). In other words, when you layed the concrete walkway, I discharged my debt to you by giving you FRNs. The debt to you still exists, as you have not been paid with gold and silver, but I have relieved my obligation to pay you through the FRN which you accepted as payment.

If the gov't ever produces a monetary system that is consistent with the Constitution for the "payment" of debt, you will be able to exchange those FRNs for the specie (gold and silver coin).

Until such time, it is impossible to pay a debt, only discharge it. This was formalized in 1933 when the worst president in US history, FDR, took the gold away and our ability to pay debts, and concreted us firmly in the hands of the money mongers.

What was your question, again? :albertein Hopefully what I wrote makes sense.

The Great Ag