BREAD & CIRCUS

[The Great Ag]

AG, can you point me a little better? I'm reading the thread, I read it when you first posted it actually, and I understand the slavery part well enough I think. I'm not sure what part is the part that removes power from the puppetmaster or the puppets, though. Or is your basic argument that you can escape from the system by taking a particular course of legal action?

Yes. The book does a more thorough job of explaining than I. In short, since everyone pretends the CONsitution has validity, it's the supreme law of the land, the gov't must follow what it says. By correcting your status, i.e. expatriation of your US citizenship and gaining the status of "state national" all those petty civil codes are not applicable to you. You will be "oustide" the system.

There is a cost. You must be TOTALLY responsible for your actions. No SS, no gov't loans, no gov't benefits of any kind, no filing for bankruptcy as these cases are done on the federal level, . . .etc.

I am still researching all the ins and outs, so I am still a US citizen, and all that it implies.

Legally you will be outside the jurisdiction of the fed gov't and all those silly civil, communist laws your state tries to impose.

You must understand that there has been a serious movement to convert the world to communism. The puppeteers have learned that overt communism does not work. People want freedom, even if it's only an illusion. That is what they are offering, only an illusion of freedom. Behind the thin veneer is communism.

Voting only gives the thieves tacit license to steal and murder.

Watch the 10 minute video. Highly educational.

The Great Ag

[REV127]

You must understand that there has been a serious movement to convert the world to communism.

I understand that much better than most. My family has been fighting them for a very long time. In fact my family is one of the few that survived the transition and there aren't very many of us left. By extension I know what WWII was about.

I can't see the legalistic strategy as viable, these guys are happy to shoot opponents and lead trumps words on paper. I can appreciate it from a theoretical perspective and it may even be worth riding it as far as it can take you, but it isn't an endgame strategy.

[SirCruz]

Ok, say we all stop voting, then what?....LOL

What happens? Whats your take on the effects of everyone just stopping their voting practice??

We all sing Kumbaya and live happily ever after??...LOL

How do we effect change??

[The Great Ag]

I understand that much better than most. My family has been fighting them for a very long time. In fact my family is one of the few that survived the transition and there aren't very many of us left. By extension I know what WWII was about.

I can't see the legalistic strategy as viable, these guys are happy to shoot opponents and lead trumps words on paper. I can appreciate it from a theoretical perspective and it may even be worth riding it as far as it can take you, but it isn't an endgame strategy.

It's not an easy battle is it. It seems you have more direct knowledge than I.

The end game is to take back the several states and restore sovereignty to each human. You must start with yourself first. Remember it has taken the concerted efforts of international financiers, with nearly limitless money supply, minimally 168 years to get to where they are today. It will probably takes Us longer to restore.

You begin with yourself and then your family and friends and work your way around. Those that are interested will listen and those that will not, well they will continue to vote for their favorite oppressor.

The choice is yours. You can be FREE,

From Blacks Legal Dictionary 5th ed.
Free Not subject to legal constraint of another. Unconstrained; having power to follow the dictates of his own will. Not subject to the dominion of another. Not compelled to involuntary servitude.

My point is by voting no one can ever be free. Even if you drop your SS# and all the other stuff, but continue to vote, you will be a corporate citizen of the United States. Literally the state owns you. That is communism.

Many on GIM will disagree with me. My wife does. That's okay. Look at history. Have any presidents in the last 100 years really followed their oath? IMO, with each president we seem to get closer to communism.
The Great Ag

[The Great Ag]

Ok, say we all stop voting, then what?....LOL

What happens? Whats your take on the effects of everyone just stopping their voting practice??

We all sing Kumbaya and live happily ever after??...LOL

How do we effect change??

Great question, SirCruz:

If the "people" actually stop voting what will their actions' say? Complete and total displeasure with the gov't. Either the "people" understand that "They" are the law, the sovereigns, or they will voluntarily submit themselves to servitude status.

How do we effect change? Change yourself, get yourself free. Watch this 10 minute video (http://www.pacinlaw.org/awareness/philosophy_of_liberty.php) about the philosphy of Liberty.

Once you understand your legal relationship with the gov't you can then keep it or change it to suit your needs. You are the Sovereign. Begin with yourself. This is an old adage, but you can only control yourself. You can't help what other people choose to do. You can debate, and influence, and that is about it.

Remember the forces that are controlling have nearly unlimited resources to forge their will. Many understand what their will is, and have no problem with it.

The Great Ag

[REV127]

When you have fought as many invasions and other unpleasantries as my family has for as many generations as we have you don't tend to trust the notion that the badguys will all the sudden just lay down their arms because you put the right check marks on the right forms. I'll need to see some radical proof to be able to fully buy into your position and hey, you may be the one to do it. I need to see something like a sovereign American striding like a giant without fear of reprisal in this country.

Personally I do not believe we have 168 years before this system collapses under its own weight. It is unsustainable. I expect it to fall within my lifetime. What comes next is a matter of concern.

[The Great Ag]

When you have fought as many invasions and other unpleasantries as my family has for as many generations as we have you don't tend to trust the notion that the badguys will all the sudden just lay down their arms because you put the right check marks on the right forms. I'll need to see some radical proof to be able to fully buy into your position and hey, you may be the one to do it. I need to see something like a sovereign American striding like a giant without fear of reprisal in this country.

Personally I do not believe we have 168 years before this system collapses under its own weight. It is unsustainable. I expect it to fall within my lifetime. What comes next is a matter of concern.

Hey, Rev:

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression about 168 years. I meant that is how long in AMerica they have had to date to advance their goals. It will probably take longer for Us to correct it.

No worries, the gov't will not lay down their guns. If you correct your status, legally they cannot touch you. You will be a "freeman". However, they still have the guns. That would be all that they could do.

Hopefully you would have enough notice to act accordingly if the gov't were to do that.

[Riskfactor]

this is a ridiculous thread and completely counter-productive to what we should be doing.

what we have forgotten is that those in Congress are still elected representatives of the people. there are those who believe the same things Dr. Paul does but do not have, and excuse my French -- The Balls to stand up to the System. just today i visited Ron Paul's site and in the "what people are saying" section are two Republican Congressmen who have endorsed him.

we finally have a leader to stand behind and he is, to my utter shock -- speaking The Real Truth! (thank GOD for the internet). when was the last time this happened? when was the last time a presidential candidate said he would abolish income tax in his first week of office as well as dismantle the Fed?

Dr. Paul and his supporters have truth on their side and truth is magnetic, it's contagious, people are suckers for the truth, but what adds even more teeth to his campaign is that their Strategy has so far been EXCELLENT: the "true" Republican; Pro-Life, Anti-War and the Constitution.

the core supporters of Dr. Paul are people just like us. and those in Congress(and those who are thinking of running for Congress) know the same things we do, if not more.

truth is magnetic, it's contagious, people are suckers for the truth.

we have 18 months to spread it.

[REV127]

That is an important angle to this discussion. If this were the Bush/Gore or Bush/Kerry race then I wouldn't be nearly as interested.

[The Great Ag]

what we have forgotten is that those in Congress are still elected representatives of the people.

Hey, Riskfactor:

Prove your assumption that "those in congress are still elected representatives." If you can, I will give you or any other GIMer 1 oz of silver.

What proof can you offer that the candidate you "voted" in to office is your representative?

The Great Ag

[_79]

this is a ridiculous thread and completely counter-productive to what we should be doing.

what we have forgotten is that those in Congress are still elected representatives of the people. there are those who believe the same things Dr. Paul does but do not have, and excuse my French -- The Balls to stand up to the System. just today i visited Ron Paul's site and in the "what people are saying" section are two Republican Congressmen who have endorsed him.

we finally have a leader to stand behind and he is, to my utter shock -- speaking The Real Truth! (thank GOD for the internet). when was the last time this happened? when was the last time a presidential candidate said he would abolish income tax in his first week of office as well as dismantle the Fed?

Dr. Paul and his supporters have truth on their side and truth is magnetic, it's contagious, people are suckers for the truth, but what adds even more teeth to his campaign is that their Strategy has so far been EXCELLENT: the "true" Republican; Pro-Life, Anti-War and the Constitution.

the core supporters of Dr. Paul are people just like us. and those in Congress(and those who are thinking of running for Congress) know the same things we do, if not more.

truth is magnetic, it's contagious, people are suckers for the truth.

we have 18 months to spread it.

One thing to consider - how simple and attractive the statement about getting rid of IRS fascism would look even for sheeple.

Long time ago I had a thought that any candidate may run even on this platform alone.

I guess this is unbeatable and highest card he can play to convince sheeple in lame terms. (He surely does not have to do anything to convince thinking people.)

[Riskfactor]

Hey, Riskfactor:

Prove your assumption that "those in congress are still elected representatives." If you can, I will give you or any other GIMer 1 oz of silver.

What proof can you offer that the candidate you "voted" in to office is your representative?

The Great Ag

i can't prove it. it's an assumption. but these ARE Americans who can think for themselves and can form their own opinions.

what do we have to lose by supporting Ron Paul? time. energy. maybe some money. what do have to gain? you know, i'm not so sure because there are too many variables to come to any rational understanding of where his campaign will lead.

do i think he's going to win? probably not. and if he does, he will have many powerful enemies. but between then and now, i have no idea what's going to happen.

good luck with your "nobody should vote" campaign. i hope it works out. but i'll stick with Ron Paul.

[Riskfactor]

One thing to consider - how simple and attractive the statement about getting rid of IRS fascism would look even for sheeple.

Long time ago I had a thought that any candidate may run even on this platform alone.

I guess this is unbeatable and highest card he can play to convince sheeple in lame terms. (He surely does not have to do anything to convince thinking people.)

that's a great point, _79. everybody, no matter how stupid they are, wants to keep their money.

[The Great Ag]

i can't prove it. it's an assumption.

And an incorrect assumption.

I understand the need to vote, the need to feel like you have a choice to influence the direction of the United States.

If I had the belief that voting matters, I would vote for Ron Paul, even if that meant as a write in.

The Great Ag

[Veritas]

Game does not work that way, Veritas. If the puppeteers want Ron Paul to be the republican candidate then he will be the favored republican oppressor. He would dance to their strings. That's the game.

But the point is that he is NOT the chosen one. He is a glitch in the system. He is something they want to eliminate and that is why you see him being slammed on all fronts in the media.

They won't choose him because he will never play their game.

It's a long answer, but I wrote a thread about it called 14th Amendment Slave (http://goldismoney.info/forums/t125000-14th-amendment-slave.html) and watch this 10 minute video on The Philosphy of Liberty (http://www.pacinlaw.org/awareness/philosophy_of_liberty.php)Start there for information.

I just want to add that the information you put in posted is priceless and I recommend everybody who has not already done so to go back and read through it.

He's a politician in a corrupt system. He knows the score, I would think. Maybe he doesn't. Irrelavent either way.

He is well aware that the system is corrupt. The foundation of his entire platform is that we define the role of government and change the system....eliminate the corruption. This has always been his position and he has been preaching it for over 20 years. Now he has more media attention then ever before. Let's hope he makes it count. Let's hope more people start to wake up.

[Masonic Plot]

what do we have to lose by supporting Ron Paul? time. energy. maybe some money. what do have to gain? you know, i'm not so sure because there are too many variables to come to any rational understanding of where his campaign will lead.

do i think he's going to win? probably not. and if he does, he will have many powerful enemies. but between then and now, i have no idea what's going to happen.

good luck with your "nobody should vote" campaign. i hope it works out. but i'll stick with Ron Paul.

Every vote cast sends a clear message to the PTB that "we have no problem with your rigged political system." Period.

It may take a long time to have an impact, but I will continue trying to show people how voting is the cause of our problems and not the answer. Eventually, one by one, people will wake up and the system will fall.
It may take a long time, but I will continue my efforts to show people how voting is the cause of our problems and not the answer. One by one people will wise up and at some point the system will fall.

I have a problem with it and I refuse to participate. That in itself is a MORE powerful political statement than continuing to participate and praying your vote will change things. I KNOW my position is NOT lending them ANY support. That is the only viable position for real change. Period.

[Veritas]

A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. - <CITE>Bertrand de Jouvenel </CITE>

[jerry]

A time tested, time-saving approach to national politics, guaranteed to work for any collapsing superpower.

1. Do not pay any attention to national politicians -
it only encourages them. They are a colossal distraction.
Stay focused.

2.Don't even make fun of them (tempting as that is).
If you completely ignore them, they will fade from view faster.

3. Alexander Solzhenitsyn (who won the 1970 Nobel Prize
in Literature) developed a handy saying which helped him
survive the GULAG. It may help you too:

"Don't believe them, don't fear them, don't ask anything of them"

But if I don't have somebody telling me which hole to dig and which hole to fill up, I will become monumentally bored with life.

What time is Boston Legal on, again?

Do you know where I can get your post in needlepoint?

Need to hang that up in my kitchen.

[DC7]

Rev,

When you have fought as many invasions and other unpleasantries as my family has for as many generations as we have you don't tend to trust the notion that the badguys will all the sudden just lay down their arms because you put the right check marks on the right forms. I'll need to see some radical proof to be able to fully buy into your position and hey, you may be the one to do it. I need to see something like a sovereign American striding like a giant without fear of reprisal in this country.

I agree, if someone really, seriously, wants you dead, a piece of paper isn't going to protect you. History has shown th powerful can violate or change laws. But there is a cost. Politicians have a stake in the approval of the people.

Words on paper won't stop them on every case. But the law is powerful. It pays to study it, and learn how it can protect you, and not enter into legal traps. How many people do they want to throw in prison that they can't arrest, or can't convict? There's such a thing as putting yourself in a bad position.

In the final anaysis you're right, if someone jumps in the ring to trade blows with someone powerful enough, they're not safe simply by obeying man's laws. Perhaps it's a poor analogy to compare worldy laws to those of the Almighty, but it illustrates my point. As a Christian, maybe you've also contemplated the concept of "falling under authority"? The Evil One sets traps to try and place you under his authority, and recognizing it is at least a measure of defense. This not being the religion section I'll just leave it at that.



Great Ag,

My point is by voting no one can ever be free. Even if you drop your SS# and all the other stuff, but continue to vote, you will be a corporate citizen of the United States. Literally the state owns you. That is communism.

Many on GIM will disagree with me. My wife does. That's okay. Look at history. Have any presidents in the last 100 years really followed their oath? IMO, with each president we seem to get closer to communism...................

...............If the "people" actually stop voting what will their actions' say? Complete and total displeasure with the gov't. Either the "people" understand that "They" are the law, the sovereigns, or they will voluntarily submit themselves to servitude status..................

.......................No worries, the gov't will not lay down their guns. If you correct your status, legally they cannot touch you. You will be a "freeman". However, they still have the guns. That would be all that they could do.

I can't say I'm an expert, but I do read the law and recognize how powerful it is. But as I said to Rev, when someone jumps in the ring to trade blows with those with enough power, they're not safe simply by obeying the law. Courts and judges can and do misapply the laws. If a tree falls in the woods and noone is there to hear, does it make a sound? What about when the law is violated and not enough peole care?


Masonic Plot,

Every vote cast sends a clear message to the PTB that "we have no problem with your rigged political system." Period....................

....................I have a problem with it and I refuse to participate. That in itself is a MORE powerful political statement than continuing to participate and praying your vote will change things. I KNOW my position is NOT lending them ANY support. That is the only viable position for real change. Period.

I've never registered to vote, and I'm old enough to have voted in more than a few presidential elections. I agree that, from the point of view of changing the system by electing a president, you're right. I consider myself a non-voter in protest.

But I also take the view that people voting in elections gives them a chance to give the shot callers a warning they're starting to get pissed off. Maybe that benifits the shotcallers more than the people. And I agree, it's not changing the system.

But I don't think Paul needs to be elected to make a difference. Getting attention, getting establishment sources to spred his message to people, could change more than actually getting elected with a congress that won't support policies.

I see this as a battle for the hearts and minds of the people, not for the office of president. As a matter of fact, actually getting elected might set him up as a scapegoat for the nations problems (or not, people can still hope). But if that's not possible, the more votes he gets, the more attention, the better. Many people have made a difference without holding office.

Hearts and minds.


Suhoi,

1. Do not pay any attention to national politicians -
it only encourages them. They are a colossal distraction.
Stay focused.

2.Don't even make fun of them (tempting as that is).
If you completely ignore them, they will fade from view faster.

3. Alexander Solzhenitsyn (who won the 1970 Nobel Prize
in Literature) developed a handy saying which helped him
survive the GULAG. It may help you too:

"Don't believe them, don't fear them, don't ask anything of them"

I don't know Solzhenitsyn, but judging by this quote I should start reading some soon.

I think there's alot or truth and wisdom in this quote, but it's a personal wisdom.

Again, how often will someone like Paul get this much attention and have the chance to promote his values and beliefs in the establishment media?

As I said, hearts and minds. I believe it can make a difference.