Objective Truth?

[Mined Games]

I hate to sound like an eternal pessimist, but I don't see how Paul has a snowball's chance in hell to win the presidency. Do you think the central bankers will allow someone to come into power that has called for the Federal Reserve Bank to be abolished? See Kennedy, John.

The stakes are simply too high to allow a maverick like Paul to come into power. The military/industrial/financial complex will resist it with all their might. And even if the American public becomes energized behind a Paul bid, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, I see dark forces intervening.

[Riskfactor]

I hate to sound like an eternal pessimist, but I don't see how Paul has a snowball's chance in hell to win the presidency. Do you think the central bankers will allow someone to come into power that has called for the Federal Reserve Bank to be abolished? See Kennedy, John.

The stakes are simply too high to allow a maverick like Paul to come into power. The military/industrial/financial complex will resist it with all their might. And even if the American public becomes energized behind a Paul bid, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, I see dark forces intervening.

i think everyone is aware of this possibility already.

one thing that i keep returning to is that statement made by a CIGA on Mr. Sinclair's site...

Dear Jim

I was really surprised to see you openly discussing the possibility of the Amero now. We've discussed this before and I don't think the Amero is currently a possibility, but if I am somehow wrong the consequences could be catastrophic. If that were to come to pass, it would essentially require a new constitutional convention, unless it was somehow ushered in during some catastrophic event such as a "9-11 v2.0", under executive order. I just can't imagine an executive order going that far... unless there was a nuclear weapon used. In that case all bets are off.

If we are talking about a future Great Depression, a new integrated currency and the de-facto amalgamation of Mexico and Canada into the United States, it seems like we would have the perfect set of ingredients for a new civil war, complete with at least three separate (but vastly unequal, at least on paper) military force structures.

CIGA Rusty Bayonet

as well as a statement made my Admiral Fallon of CENTCOM from an article posted by a GIMer on the Iran thread....

Asked how he could be sure, the source says, Fallon replied, "You know what choices I have. I'm a professional." Fallon said that he was not alone, according to the source, adding, "There are several of us trying to put the crazies back in the box."

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37738

there are too many variables to make any sense of how this will unfold, so i'll withhold judgment on how things will turn out, and just do what i believe is right. whatever happens will happen.

[AMforPM]

This is a great thread.

Risk, one of the things I liked best in the Lord of the Rings books was how history in that tale was repeatedly shown to turn upon the decision by some individual to do what was right when the odds seemed hopeless, the outcome worse than uncertain, and they had to decide alone and maybe no one would ever know. I think that made a true statement about how history is created.

Doing what you think is right not knowing the outcome times millions will create a much better outcome. But each has to do it presuming they do it alone.

I read something surprising today along those lines. It was down the page buried in an article about the grousing about the current Attorney General (who IMO merits indictment).

Gonzalez went to see Ashcroft when Ashcroft was in ICU to twist his arm to ok the illegal wiretaps. Ashcroft refused and the program was toned down till Ashcroft was gone. I have mocked that man for losing an election to a corpse and singing his eagle song with Condi on keys... but in a hospital bed near death he stood up for his view of the constitution. No camera glow, no reason to believe anyone would thank him. I still do not agree with him in many ways, but I'll never make fun of him again. When no one was watching and there was nothing to gain (and maybe a lot to lose, he was helpless there) he tried to protect the constitution.

[RealJack]

AM, you are among my favorite posters. Your words just have a way of making me feel better. Thanks.

[DC7]

Mined Games,

I hate to sound like an eternal pessimist, but I don't see how Paul has a snowball's chance in hell to win the presidency.

I just posted in another thread:

I don't think Paul needs to be elected to make a difference. Getting attention, getting establishment sources to spread his message to people, could change more than actually getting elected with a congress that won't support his policies.

I see this as a battle for the hearts and minds of the people, not for the office of president. As a matter of fact, actually getting elected might set him up as a scapegoat for the nations problems (or not, people can still hope). But if that's not possible, the more votes he gets, the more attention, the better. Many people have made a difference without holding office.

Hearts and minds.

[Riskfactor]

This is a great thread.

Risk, one of the things I liked best in the Lord of the Rings books was how history in that tale was repeatedly shown to turn upon the decision by some individual to do what was right when the odds seemed hopeless, the outcome worse than uncertain, and they had to decide alone and maybe no one would ever know. I think that made a true statement about how history is created.

Doing what you think is right not knowing the outcome times millions will create a much better outcome. But each has to do it presuming they do it alone.

I read something surprising today along those lines. It was down the page buried in an article about the grousing about the current Attorney General (who IMO merits indictment).

Gonzalez went to see Ashcroft when Ashcroft was in ICU to twist his arm to ok the illegal wiretaps. Ashcroft refused and the program was toned down till Ashcroft was gone. I have mocked that man for losing an election to a corpse and singing his eagle song with Condi on keys... but in a hospital bed near death he stood up for his view of the constitution. No camera glow, no reason to believe anyone would thank him. I still do not agree with him in many ways, but I'll never make fun of him again. When no one was watching and there was nothing to gain (and maybe a lot to lose, he was helpless there) he tried to protect the constitution.

that's a fantastic story about Ashcroft, AMforPM. i'd never heard this before and i share your reaction as well.

i absolutely believe in the human spirit and the goodness within most people, and i accept it as a legitimate, powerful and often overlooked variable that can turn the tide of any event. and this isn't just in regards to the Admiral Fallon article. i am sure unspoken dissent exists within every branch of the federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

people naturally reference past wars and elections to try and build consensus of where we are going. while those comparisons may hold some merit, there is an entirely new set of ingredients in this era. consider just the internet alone and how it has given the people a channel for instantaneous, unfiltered mass communication. what's occuring during this rise of Ron Paul is just one benefit we've seen. i can't even imagine what other benefits the net can and will serve in different scenarios and how the power establishment cannot foresee them.

i am not sure if you've read this letter from Richard C. Cook to a William Engdahl. a GIMer posted it in a thread a while ago....

Dear Dr. Engdahl,

My name is Richard C. Cook. I am the author of a new book called "Challenger Revealed: An Insider's Account of How the Reagan Administration Caused the Greatest Tragedy of the Space Age," as well as two recent articles on Global Research on space policy and economic issues.

I have just finished reading your outstanding article on "Putin and the Geopolitics of the New Cold War," with which I agree in every detail. I believe that the U.S. establishment could be planning a nuclear first strike on Russia. There is a profound split within the U.S. military, however, in that the Army and Navy and elements of the Air Force still view their job as a defensive force to secure the safety of the United States. The element of the military which aims for world conquest, even through a first strike, includes the higher echelons of the Air Force, the Missile Defense Agency, and that part of the civilian leadership most aligned with the powerful financial forces that are the real overseers of the country.

In my book "Challenger Revealed" I point out that an underlying cause of the 1986 disaster was the takeover of the Shuttle program by the leadership of Star Wars in order to use the shuttle as a testing platform for space weapons. My book also makes it clear that Star Wars was always intended to facilitate offensive warfare. The only "good" thing about the Challenger disaster was that it brought space weapons testing to a halt, since the Air Force had no alternative testing system. Today they have corrected that flaw by shifting back to unmanned launchers for testing and deployment.

Your statement in your article that, "Bush`s America is a hollowed-out debt-ridden economy engaged on using its last card, its vast military power, to prop up the dollar and its role as world sole Superpower," is, of course, correct. Unfortunately, the Asian powers, including Russia, which are uniting against the U.S. have time on their side. The U.S. economy is on a trajectory for collapse, even while the military power and economies of the Asian giants is growing daily. This could mean that the U.S. tries to take decisive action sooner rather than later. I discuss and document these economic and geopolitical issues in a new book I am writing.

My website is www.richardccook.com if you would like to take a look.

Thank you, and I shall continue to read your excellent analysis with great interest.

Richard C. Cook

rickycook21@hotmail.com

http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net./Letters/letters.html


this man is credible. an insider, and seems to know exactly what he's talking about.

[Horn]

AM, you are among my favorite posters. Your words just have a way of making me feel better. Thanks.

Second that, AMforPM has a certain clarity and eloquence within writing that keeps you wanting more.

You should really consider publishing something Am.

If you could chain all those posts together you have a great read.:applause_

[RickyJ]

TThat being said - I think they will kick him out of the debates and force him to go as an independent..

I don't think Paul will run as an independent. He said he wouldn't. They can kick him out of the debates, but that won't stop him from getting the nomination if he gets enough votes in the primaries. Ron Paul is long shot for sure, but given his outstanding performance and feedback from the first two debates, I would he say he definitely has a shot at the nomination. That's why they are attacking him so early. They are scared to death that he will win the nomination. I don't think Ron Paul is in their back pocket like the rest of them are.

[Veritas]

I don't think Paul will run as an independent. He said he wouldn't. They can kick him out of the debates, but that won't stop him from getting the nomination if he gets enough votes in the primaries. Ron Paul is long shot for sure, but given his outstanding performance and feedback from the first two debates, I would he say he definitely has a shot at the nomination. That's why they are attacking him so early. They are scared to death that he will win the nomination. I don't think Ron Paul is in their back pocket like the rest of them are.

He's not in their back pocket.

Although he said that he "isn't planning on" running as an Independent, it does not mean that he won't if the Republican party drops him in spite of overwhelming public support.

He isn't going to come out and say that he will run Independent but if he is dropped by his own party while he has the lead in the race, you can be damn sure that he will run Independent.

[volzka]

Hey-

Strange that AM made the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I personally made that connection with the reading of the four books many years ago. What I would add, and the movie re-enforce, is that in the end, in that great last final battle the force that finally brought about the destruction of evil (Mordor and the minion Orcs) was the souls of the dead who found release when they fought for good. JMO,

Volzka

[Kahlil Gibran]

28601
actually Read the cover of this Book

JFK wrote this book before "someone" blew the top of his head off in front of America. Everybody watched it on teevee. Over and over again. JFK wrote this book before the Warren Commission investigated the "someone" who did it. Then the Warren Commission sealed the record for SEVENTY FIVE YEARS so even today we don't know who that "someone" is. The files are still sealed by your Congress.

:sleep: This thread is a joke talking about how some single brave honorable soul is needed to lead America to Truth and Justice. As if 71 year-old geezer Ron Paul is The Leader who can lead us out of the Darkness into the bright shining Light of Liberty.

28602

We all like to drink beer and rent Braveheart as William Wallace demonstrates how one single decent man can stand up to Tyranny. We don't ever mention the end of the movie when he is publicly drawn and quartered alive and his head displayed on the London Bridge. We never mention that.

28603
PROFILE IN COURAGE

:ridinghor how can anybody talk about Truth and Justice when JFK's files are still sealed by your Congress for 75 years? Still waiting for that Leader?

[Riskfactor]

why must you and the minority of nihilists on this forum shit on everyone's hopes? all of us harbor the same pessimism you do, but inactivity does even less.

just let it be.

[Kahlil Gibran]

why must you and the minority of nihilists on this forum shit on everyone's hopes? all of us harbor the same pessimism you do, but inactivity does even less.

just let it be.

And your "activity" of name-calling is doing what exactly?

[mamboni]

It is better to light a single candle than curse the darkness.

-Old Chinese proverb

[Horn]

We all like to drink beer and rent Braveheart as William Wallace demonstrates how one single decent man can stand up to Tyranny. We don't ever mention the end of the movie when he is publicly drawn and quartered alive and his head displayed on the London Bridge. We never mention that.

All for one, and one for all, Kahlil.:bear_grin:

It is better to light a single candle than curse the darkness.

Nice

[Veritas]

We all like to drink beer and rent Braveheart as William Wallace demonstrates how one single decent man can stand up to Tyranny. We don't ever mention the end of the movie when he is publicly drawn and quartered alive and his head displayed on the London Bridge. We never mention that.

After which, the sons of Scottland won their freedom.

He started a movement and people rallied behind him. Likewise, people are rallying behind Ron Paul.

[Kahlil Gibran]

After which, the sons of Scottland won their freedom.

He started a movement and people rallied behind him. Likewise, people are rallying behind Ron Paul.

People actually brought picnic baskets to his public execution.

Scotland still isn't free: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1074205.stm

:wub:

[Veritas]

People actually brought picnic baskets to his public execution.

Like anybody, he had both those who suported him and those who "wanted his head on a platter".

History was not written by hero's, but by those who killed them.

Scotland still isn't free

In today's world, what country is?

[Kahlil Gibran]

After which, the sons of Scottland won their freedom.

He started a movement and people rallied behind him. Likewise, people are rallying behind Ron Paul.

You stand corrected.

:wavey:

[Veritas]

You stand corrected.

:wavey:

I was correct from the beginning. Freedom was won in the early 14th Century. A lot can change in 700 years.

[AMforPM]

The pessimists, in effect, work for TPTB, though not on purpose. I think most are just demoralized and afraid, but they can't think that about themselves, so they call it being 'realistic' in their own minds.

And it is realistic to be afraid. It is absolutely realistic that it won't be easy to get our country back.

One of the heroes of the OKC bombing investigation, Hoppy Heidelberg, said that for a long time he could not understand how people could miss something as obvious as that no truck bomb could have done that damage. People just would not look at obvious evidence. But he said he finally understood. Because if you did see it, what were you going to do about it? Because if someone blew up American kids and the government covered up for them, that requires action. And each of us feels alone and unable to deal with the scale of the problem.

The notion that 'resistance is futile' is a necessitity to Big Borg Brother. Each of us is supposed to be tuned in to Fox thinking we are the only human not entirely satisfied with the NWO and there is no hope whatever.

And even though we have shaken some of the programming off, I think a lot of us were surprised at how many responded instantly and positively to Paul.

That is what TPTB really don't want noticed. Most of the 'sheep' are no longer snoozing. They are trying to figure out what to do.

If we can take back both parties, that is a wonderful place to begin. Even as president with as much congressional support as a huge effort by the public could elect, there are all the shadow government elements that got Kennedy he would have to contend with. So even if a few mission impossibles get achieved, there are more after that.

But compared to trying to rebuild after a nuclear nightmare those difficult ways are much easier.

On the plus side is what has been posted above -- we are not only not alone in liking Paul, we have like minded people inside the government and even inside the shadow government. A real awakening will bring more awake there, too.

Everyone is capable of redemption. Everyone. Not all will accept it, but many will. Some will be crushed by facing their past actions, like McNamara, but some will be able to help.

There is a profound split within the U.S. military, however, in that the Army and Navy and elements of the Air Force still view their job as a defensive force to secure the safety of the United States. The element of the military which aims for world conquest, even through a first strike, includes the higher echelons of the Air Force, the Missile Defense Agency, and that part of the civilian leadership most aligned with the powerful financial forces that are the real overseers of the country.

On the subject of spirits, I also think many spirits are trying to help the living through these times. (And some are on the other side.)

I have sometimes thought that I wished I lived in less interesting times, but then what would I pick? The Plague? The Civil War? We have had 60 years of no armies marching through our towns and material abundance beyond the wildest dreams of most humans in all of history. If we can take back our country through the constitutional means of elections, that would be magnificent and a great blessing. Even if the odds are long it is worth trying for.

Also, as has been posted, each person who hears Paul for the first time in one of these debates is a victory in itself.

[Scorpio]

This thread is a joke talking about how some single brave honorable soul is needed to lead America to Truth and Justice. As if 71 year-old geezer Ron Paul is The Leader who can lead us out of the Darkness into the bright shining Light of Liberty.

And KG in your infinite wisdom, what would you propose we do to carry out your utopian socialist view?

Or would you prefer jungles and huts, where you can duck your head and hide from the god awful jews?

You don't get anywhere by never starting, all you get is a bad attitude. Better to take a shot at changing things, then to sit around and blame someone else for all the worlds problems.

Rather than mocking the effort, thereby spamming yet another thread, why don't you come to the table with something realistic for once? Bring us an alternative to look at.

But alas, you never do.................

besides, I have more faith than you do in the people here, and how they do not harbor any beliefs that R Paul is the solution to everything and anything.


Scorp

[Kahlil Gibran]

And KG in your infinite wisdom, what would you propose we do to carry out your utopian socialist view?

Or would you prefer jungles and huts, where you can duck your head and hide from the god awful jews?

You don't get anywhere by never starting, all you get is a bad attitude. Better to take a shot at changing things, then to sit around and blame someone else for all the worlds problems.

Rather than mocking the effort, thereby spamming yet another thread, why don't you come to the table with something realistic for once? Bring us an alternative to look at.

But alas, you never do.................

besides, I have more faith than you do in the people here, and how they do not harbor any beliefs that R Paul is the solution to everything and anything.


Scorp

Please don't spam this thread with your anti-Semitic off-topic snide remarks. Only Scorpio mentioned Jews here. Only Scorpio.

:wavey: and please stop personally attacking a fellow GIM Member. That is a violation of GIM rules. If you disagree with my post please offer a rational counterpoint rather then a personal attack. Finally...please take administrative notice that the title and topic of this tread is OBJECTIVE TRUTH. My post was on-topic, relevant, and proper.

[messianicdruid]

I was watching C-Spam's Washington Journal early this morning and when the phone numbers came on I started dailing. I was switching between the Republican number and the Independent number and finally got through on the Republican number.

The screener asked me if I was a Republican and I said, "Well I didn't know whether to call on the Independent or Republican line, but if Ron Paul is a Republican I'm voting for him."

The guest was some writer from the DC area who had just made a comment about all the labels floating around and how people were confused by them.

I started off with, "I'd like to help Brian _______ with the labels, Ron Paul is the first American, 'double underline' !! , to run for President in fifty years." Then I said {as someone on this thread has said first} "Ron Paul is the only Republican that can make a run at the Democrats because all the other Republicans have GW Bush and the Iraq debacle hanging around their necks."

Since I wanted to get Ron Paul's biggest {in my opinion} selling point out there I said, "Ron Paul wants to abolish the IRS and the Federal Reserve."

Next, since they were on the immigration issue I said, "The only way to fix the immigration problem is to stop treating the symptoms and start finding out and dealing with the cause. Why do all these people from south of the border want to move here?" What's wrong with that country that no one wants to stay home? I was ready to tell them much more but, at this point, since I was watching their reactions with the TV on mute, I noticed the Brian guy talking and figured they had cut me off right after I said the stuff about the IRS and FED. I was right.

He was talking about Ron Paul's campaign not having "traction" and ignoring the polls that have been mentioned above and the fact that Ron Paul OWNS the internet {although he did not invent it}. I think all these nay-sayers are in for a big surprise.

[Scorpio]

KG,

That was not a personal attack, only in your own mind.

It was simply pointing out a valid difference of opinion, as you did by calling the thread a joke.

You see bra, you stepped in with your argument about nothing yet again, except to take shots at something. Yet, you offer no constructive solutions.

Truth be told, you were attacking any and all members that have the idea that R Paul should be supported for what may be gained by doing so.

Your response was very typical, as yet again, there is nothing offered.

And yes, there were some you's in that post.........ie KG, because it was directed at 'you', just as your joke comment was directed at all the members here supporting R Paul.

If you fail to find the logic in this, by all means, go haunt another board where it is more to your liking. As it is, the constant pessimism becomes a bore.

Scorpio

[Horn]

messianic<--I think all these nay-sayers are in for a big surprise.

Let's make it happen. The 71 year old dude is just a tool for us...

KG like HT.:D

[Kahlil Gibran]

And KG in your infinite wisdom, what would you propose we do to carry out your utopian socialist view?

KG has a utopian socialist view.

Or would you prefer jungles and huts, where you can duck your head and hide from the god awful jews?

KG prefers jungles and huts and hides from god awful jews.

You don't get anywhere by never starting, all you get is a bad attitude. Better to take a shot at changing things, then to sit around and blame someone else for all the worlds problems.

KG has a bad attitude and blames others.

Rather than mocking the effort, thereby spamming yet another thread, why don't you come to the table with something realistic for once? Bring us an alternative to look at.

KG is violating the GIM Rule against Spamming.

But alas, you never do.................

KG never is realistic.

besides, I have more faith than you do in the people here, and how they do not harbor any beliefs that R Paul is the solution to everything and anything.

It's everything and anything.

Scorp

Slander posing as an invitation to leave GIM.

:knuddel: i love you too bear

[Horn]

Let's not forget our sensibilities here people, we all stand for gold and silver.

We should unite in communistic fashion to bring down the evil faction.

Then we can go onto our separated philosophical paths...

It is our ability to go from bear to bull that will pull us thru.

Flexibility.

[RealJack]

Let's not forget our sensibilities here people, we all stand for gold and silver.

We should unite in communistic fashion to bring down the evil faction.

Then we can go onto our separated philosophical paths...

It is our ability to go from bear to bull that will pull us thru.

Flexibility.


Yes, and adaptability... like water, like when water gets splashed in the face, how it adapts to the shape of the face. That's how we need to be. Like little cups of water, splashing the cynical and skeptical resisters in the face.

Humorously, and gently waking people up with some nice cold bracing water. Waterboarding comes later. :emotions16:

By the way, I just now joined the Ron Paul Revolution.

Combined with a leaderless revolution we could have a winner.

[Veritas]

All truth is self-evident.

And KG in your infinite wisdom, what would you propose we do to carry out your utopian socialist view?

Or would you prefer jungles and huts, where you can duck your head and hide from the god awful jews?

You don't get anywhere by never starting, all you get is a bad attitude. Better to take a shot at changing things, then to sit around and blame someone else for all the worlds problems.

Rather than mocking the effort, thereby spamming yet another thread, why don't you come to the table with something realistic for once? Bring us an alternative to look at.

But alas, you never do.................

besides, I have more faith than you do in the people here, and how they do not harbor any beliefs that R Paul is the solution to everything and anything.


Scorp

:applause_ :clap2: :applause_ :clap2: :applause_ :clap2: :applause_ :clap2: :applause_ :clap2:

KG,

That was not a personal attack, only in your own mind.

It was simply pointing out a valid difference of opinion, as you did by calling the thread a joke.

You see bra, you stepped in with your argument about nothing yet again, except to take shots at something. Yet, you offer no constructive solutions.

Truth be told, you were attacking any and all members that have the idea that R Paul should be supported for what may be gained by doing so.

Your response was very typical, as yet again, there is nothing offered.

And yes, there were some you's in that post.........ie KG, because it was directed at 'you', just as your joke comment was directed at all the members here supporting R Paul.

If you fail to find the logic in this, by all means, go haunt another board where it is more to your liking. As it is, the constant pessimism becomes a bore.

Scorpio

Couldn't agree more! :coolbeer: