need legal opinion as rights being stomped on!

[motowngold]

quick synopsis, I pay some child support to my ex for our beautiful daughter. We have a very freindly relationship and a long time ago agreed to settle our own matters without the 'help' of the state. This means I pay her directly. This weekend I get a letter from the Macomb County (Mi) Friend of the Court telling me that I owe them money! Not only that, they have already turned me into the state so that any tax money I might recieve would be withheld. Mind you, they are a collection agency for child support but all money is to be passed on the reciever of the support. I cannot owe them any money as in our court agreement, it is stated that I will pay her, or vice-versa,directly which completely cuts the FOC out of the picture. I am going to call them this afternoon but any advice in handling this would be appreciated. I am already practicing blood pressure control deep breathing and yelling without swearing ;).
thanks in advance.

[Leaf Ericson]

I went through this 15 years ago. They want you in the system because there is a substantial float to be had. If you think about how much money moves through their bureaucracy, even if it's only held up a few days, they are profiting substantially at you and your family's expense.

[motowngold]

thanks for your response.
It is not the ex at all. She is willing to go in with me and fight it because we do not need the government in our private issue . Plus you are right, I typically send her the money early and she knows it. One time when she was short, I gave it to her a month early so she could make her house payment. Better to work together than to fight, this we figured out a long time ago and the beneficiary of this is my daughter.
At any rate, I had heard a rumor that anyone off the Friend of Court pay list costs them money in gov. subsidies, although I dont know if this is true. They also lose out on the hassle factor , but now they are getting their jabs in at me. I will have to call my lawyer if I cant settle this myself, waste some money on him and go on from there.

[motowngold]

Leaf,
Thanks for you answer, I was posting same time you were and I was guessing something like what you said was the case. It makes perfect sense. It is all a big money scam. You think they would spend their time on the people that dont pay instead of hassling me.

[Halophyte]

I had to go thru this crap and I have joint custody ( have higher income) - simply file a claim using your banking records.

You have 30 days from the 'date of notice' to up-date their stupid records.

Now, if your not keeping records of direct payments ...... uh oh !

It's a double do ya'.




.

[motowngold]

do I have to send them cancelled checks or what? I can dig those up. they did not even state what I owed them for, only that I did, and action was being taken.

[Leaf Ericson]

You might be better of getting an attorney involved. These things can spiral out of hand quickly and these agencies have their own set of rules. Fairness does not enter the equation.

[motowngold]

Just got off the phone with them. What a joke! On hold for half on hour for starters. I talk to the lady who was suprisingly , or at least seemingly, decent, although not empowered to actually clear this thing up but at least I got some info and a definite number of how much I really 'owe' instead of the one they tried to frighten me with. Well, after much deliberation and explanation she determines that I really only 'owe' them about 400 dollars. This is of course for administrative fees. Well, I told her that this case was settled years ago, and it was determined then that I didnt owe them any money. She says this is for taking care of the case for these past 8 years. I am like, well thanks for being so concerned, but I dont WANT you taking care of my case, that is why you guys were kicked out of the process 8 years ago. In the final analysis, I am to write a letter to some other person for a judicial review. She also said that the only thing the letter was informing me of was that they would take money out of my state income taxes to pay for the fees. Well, joke is on them, at least sort of. When I saw a couple of years ago some states like Missouri paying refunds back very late, I made sure that I always owe the state now. They will have a hard time getting any money out of what I would get back ;)

[motowngold]

skyvike, I will write them although I figure that the 400 bucks is pretty much gone. They will find some way of ignoring the facts that I am sure of. Judicial review, ya, I will bet on that for sure. Well at least it was just 400 but still , what an example of just how heavy handed the system has gotten and for what? After all, I am taking care of my daughter, is not the purpose of the FOC, to get people that are not taking care of their children? Yet they choose to waste the taxpayers money chasing me. Oh well , like I said, I changed my elections so now I will owe them for the refund. They wont get this money out of me for another 8 years when my daughter turns 18.

[Silverstone]

The system is VERY heavy handed; and the fraud is rampant. It is true there is money involved, the more a state collects, the more the Feds give them every year to keep their programs up and running.

Respond to their letter in writing within the noticed timeframe; ask the questions the one poster stated, (excellent); and make sure you have copies of the cancelled checks (front/back) if and when you may need them.

This isn't right, but they do it ALL the time.

My hubby's x-wife walked into Florida's office claiming he owed $6000 in back child support, he didn't owe a dime. What had happened was he was allowed to deduct her portion of the children's airfare when the X did not reimburse him within 30 days for her portion; so we do this for 7 odd years (thank God we kept the receipts) and cockroach goes in and "forgets" about the "unreimbursed" airfare and hands over fraudulent numbers (made-up) receipts to the state child support collections agency.

Oh wonderful. We request hearings (two states mind you, the one we live in, and the one she lives in). Illinois gives us our hearing, the absolved hubby of it all (as we had copies of ALL airline ticket receipts and the Order stating he was allowed to deduct her unreimbursed airfare from the child support when she didn't reimburse him within 30 days);ok, then Florida closes the case out at ZERO; but did Florida pay us back the $1700 they took out of hubby's tax returns until it was all straightened out? HELL NO...that's how far our administrative review went, we proved hubby didn't owe a dime, we proved the tax intercept should never have been put on, we proved the X commited fraud with her numbers (hell she didn't even have the RIGHT DATES or YEARS of travel!);and do you know what FLORIDA told us? Sorry, we don't have the JURISDICTION to settle this, you'll have to sue her in civil court...FU Florida, they had the jurisdiction to TAKE IT illegally (before hubby had a hearing in either state!) they refused him a hearing in FLORIDA before they took it, etc., etc., etc., and then the final administrative review comes back "not in our jursidiction to resolve." And yeah, like we are really going to pay $2500 to an attorney in Florida to START a case against the X and the State of Florida, yeah uh huh, that's just $1700 down the drain, FRAUD by both.

It's a racket buddy, but I would do everything to fight it, EVERYTHING. I work for a family law attorney, and he says they do it ALL THE TIME, they are worthless and a bunch of crooks (plus overworked, underpaid, and screwed up systems). The state child support collection agencies are for the most part incompetent. And yes, they get incentives for every dime they collect, so if they can do to someone what they did to us (cost us more to fight it and win then what we'd get back) they do it, they KNOW what they are doing, and they don't give a damn, it's all about how much they can bring it and show they collected at the end of the year. And if they can browbeat you they will.

Make sure you ask for the administrative review within the time limits you have to ask (20 days or something from date of letter); if you are not satisfied with administrative review, you go forth with the judicial review (do not waive your judicial review) in front of a judge...take it ALL the way to the Judge. If you have proof they were pulled out of this (the Order) take it with you and tell them you are not liable for the fees, and here's the Order proving it. They should drop it right then and there.

[motowngold]

Thank you to everyone for your great and timely responses. I appreciate it very much. I will take all in , add a few things of my own, write a letter and see if I get a response. It is funny how they can just assess a fee to my case without any prior statement of what the fees or rate schedule might be. I do not expect much in the way of fair treatment, but it is worth a shot.