survivalist first, investor second

[lone ranger]

As you can see from my info, this is my first post. I hope it's a decent one.

I've gotten addicted to silver, I think. In the past few days, I've bought several hundred dollars worth of rounds, silver eagles, and pre 65 dollars.
My problem is that I need to develope a more exact plan or a stratagy of what I'm doing to maximize my buying .

Some people say the best thing is 90% pre 1965 and others .999 silver rounds. But if there is a SHTF situation or the dollar becomes worthless it would seem like people would like something quick to identify as pure silver and easy to handle. I just dont understand how having a zillion old dimes, quarters, and halves is going to be more acceptable than an american silver eagle. Are people gonna stop and look at the date on every single coin? Until last week, I never knew that "silver rounds" even existed. And I bet most people have never seen rounds or bricks. But lots of people have heard of the eagle. Older, collector type coins are sure not the way for me to go. So, to get to the point here, what's so bad about the eagles as #1 survival tender and #2 investment?

This is really a great site.

Thanks for your info.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Welcome aboard Lone Ranger

There’s nothing wrong with saving American Eagles for both survival and investment. The only possible critique here is that you can accumulate more ounces of silver, per fiat dollar invested, if you opt for 90% junk U.S. coins. I favor the Franklin halves but to each his own.

You should be well received into our fellowship, most here fancy for your bullets as well as your horse.

[SilverNuts@Bolts]

Welcome aboard [wher's Tonto?]

My thoughts are, some years from the present, dimes and quarters will be more valuable and [maybe] used in everyday trading [bartering or real money] more so, then silver dollars. Eagles, being even more valuable, will be used for larger purchases so, in essence, used less. There was a time, when a dime was the pay, for a days work. In those days, silver was money and some day, it will be again...

[koyaanisqatsi]

As you can see from my info, this is my first post. I hope it's a decent one. (very good post!)

I've gotten addicted to silver, I think. In the past few days, I've bought several hundred dollars worth of rounds, silver eagles, and pre 65 dollars. (these $1 coins are high premium collectibles relative to lower denominations old US silver coins)

My problem is that I need to develope a more exact plan or a stratagy of what I'm doing to maximize my buying .

Some people say the best thing is 90% pre 1965 and others .999 silver rounds. But if there is a SHTF situation or the dollar becomes worthless it would seem like people would like something quick to identify as pure silver and easy to handle.

I just dont understand how having a zillion old dimes, quarters, and halves is going to be more acceptable than an american silver eagle. (Most people have NOT SEEN a Silver Eagle, but they LOOK for silver dimes and quarters, or they used to when I was young, JMO)

Are people gonna stop and look at the date on every single coin? (No, but if you buy old 90% low price junk MERCURY DIMES and FRANKLIN HALVES, you will have easily recognizable silver coins in SMALL USEFUL denominations -- at below spot price NOW, later these may hold a PREMIUM collectible value)

Until last week, I never knew that "silver rounds" even existed. (Most peole don't, but IMO if TSHTF people will learn about silver Eagles and the MAJOR MINT'S Silver Rounds. They will be equal in value then IMO, eagles and rounds, so why pay even more premium over spot for the Eagles? I say get known minted rounds, skip the Eagles)

And I bet most people have never seen rounds or bricks. (Yes I agree)

But lots of people have heard of the eagle. (Not many more than those who have heard of the rounds, I think once you 'learn Silver', you've learned of old US coins and tableware first, then finally Eagles, then SOON AFTER about bars and rounds. JMO -- I've not taken an exact survey, just observation for 2-3 years now)

Older, collector type coins are sure not the way for me to go. (Right, avoid premium over silver, that will likely become less important, a mere luxury item to collect and be stuck with until you can find a premium coin buyer, all when times are tough just to survive)

So, to get to the point here, what's so bad about the eagles as #1 survival tender and #2 investment?

This is really a great site.

Thanks for your info.

Koy here suggests you buy Mercury Dimes and Franklin Halves -- lowest silver content cost per ounce, and small for purchases, easily recognized as 90% silver. Make this at least 50%, but not more than 75% of your silver purchases... you are buying silver this way below spot vs maybe 5-10% over spot for bars and 15% over spot for rounds and 25%+ over spot for Eagles... these are round numbers of course.

Plus these coins are MADE for CIRCULATION... that's why they are 90% and not 100% silver, pure .999 being too soft and easily tarnishable to be as useful in this service.

Also however some good name brand rounds will be .999 ounces for easy barter in some cases done in ounces silver vs. face value transactions. And finally some 10-ounce bars are handy for larger transactions since they carry less premium than 1 ounce rounds. Make these the remaining percentage of your purchase.

And some 1/10 to 1/2 oz gold coins are handy if you have to carry some liquid wealth very discretely while your bulky silver remains protected somewhere else.

Conversions to show the bargains in old US coins
(compare relative 0% circulated coin appreciation in collectors value over silver to old US 1950's comic books for instance at about 5,000% up...)

OLD ROLLS -- dimes and quarters and halves Silver spot value
$20.00 Dollars in Face is spot value............................. $109.80
$ 5 roll is 3.616 pure silver is today spot value silver.......... $27.45
$10 roll is 7.233 oz pure silver 7.233 pure silver is today.....$54.90
spot @ $7.59 TODAY
$1 face in pre-1965 US coins is $5.49 in spot silver today

So a Mercury Dime .07232 ounces will be worth $7.23 if/when silver goes to $100 (here assumed equivalent buying power) an ounce... a Franklin half will be $36.15...

Now do you want to carry around Silver Eagles worth $100 each when you go to buy just a gallon of Kerosene or a box of .22 shells? Meanwhile, a 10-ounce bar, the one most easily faked, will be worth $1,000...Meanwhile you can buy 10-30% MORE silver on today's investment if you buy dimes... go figure, I did... I think 'survival' too, just like you.

Lone Ranger, I am not pretending to be an EXPERT, just a new friend sharing an honest opinion that you asked for... welcome to the forum and please give me YOUR OPINION anytime... thanks for joining us, Lone Ranger, my kemo sabe!

[CtrlAltDel]

For a "survivor" buy 90% dimes, then 40% halfs, then 90% quarters, then 90% halves, then Eagles. You then have the whole range of options of silver coinage available to you. You do not have to "tip your hand" or show the size of your stash when making any purchase.

[PONCE]

Well buddy, I'll stay with my one oz round silver coins and take your mercury dimes for small loose change when ever I buy something.

Place a one oz round silver coin on a scale and then do the same with the mercury dimes and see how many will that be equal to, remember also that mercury dimes are not .999 pure silver like one oz round silver.

Got silver ?????????

[AKBill]

I just started buying this last year and the advise I got and used was to buy 90% coinage.

It looks from your post that you like me are not buying 100 oz at a time and spending a few hundred here and there.

What I have done when I buy small amounts is use mixed 90% lots on ebay I have a seller that gives me 1lb of 90% mixed quarters dimes and halfs with a silver eagle and peace dollar for about $100.00 that way I cover all my bases
I have bought over five pounds from her now and have liked them every time
her ebay ID is dv7777777 tell her akbillssurplus sent you if you buy from her she auctions them as 1/4 lb lots at 21.99 starting price I have never had to pay over 25.00 for a 1/4 lb from her.

welcome to the forum you'll love it here

[onepence]

Do wartime nickels have more silver value than dimes?

and only wartime nickels, as compared to other nickels, have silver content, TRUE ?

oneness,
dh

[Bobcat]

Do wartime nickels have more silver value than dimes?

and only wartime nickels, as compared to other nickels, have silver content, TRUE ?

oneness,
dh
Wartime nickles are 35% silver and have less silver than a dime.

[koyaanisqatsi]

Lone Ranger, I hope you have not ridden off yet, please come back... Hiho Silver!

I decided to check some current prices on Ebay, but first I'll address Jerry's great comment about the real content of silver in an worn down old roll of US silver dimes...

Like dimes, quarters, and half-dollars, silver dollars were minted of an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper with each coin containing a net silver content of .77344 ounce; therefore, 1,000 coins contained 773.44 ounces of silver when minted. By contrast, $1,000 face value of pre-1965 U.S. silver dimes, quarters, or half-dollars contained 723.4 ounces of silver, a difference of fifty ounces.

When minted, a $1,000 face value bag contained 723.4 ounces of silver. Due to wear, however, a bag of circulated coins yields approximately 715 ounces when refined; therefore, to calculate an accurate price per ounce, divide the cost by 715. A bag weights a little under 55 pounds on a bathroom scale.
http://www.certifiedmint.com/silver.htm

http://www.certifiedmint.com/images/MercDimeex.gif
Junk silver Mercury Dimes
.715 per $1 face x $5 roll of dimes (worn as above) = 3.575 oz pure silver content
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11960&item=3939750877&rd=1
Sold at $21.50 as above = $6.01 an ounce
$1,000 buys 166.4 ounces pure silver equivalent

20 ounce roll .999 ‘name brand’ minted rounds
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3940608448&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Sold at $162.50 = $8.12 per ounce
$1,000 buys 123 ounces of pure silver

20 1 ounce Silver Eagles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3939845553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Sold at $197.00 = $9.85 per ounce
$1,000 buys 102 ounces of pure silver

Think it over and take your pick, consider that people will learn about REAL silver content pretty quickly -- if silver becomes a regular medium of exchange currency or barter after the FRN dollar collapse or even being blasted virtually into the stone age... again I say small denominations, easily recognizable as silver, IMPOSSIBLE to counterfeit well, these little coins will be in high demand as TRADITIONAL universal trade currency.

Maybe you could start a new :hahaha: local 'bank' with your many silver dimes... comments are welcome from all.

[jerry]

Lone Ranger, I hope you have not ridden off yet, please come back... Hiho Silver!

I decided to check some current prices on Ebay, but first I'll address Jerry's great comment about the real content of silver in an worn down old roll of US silver dimes...

Like dimes, quarters, and half-dollars, silver dollars were minted of an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper with each coin containing a net silver content of .77344 ounce; therefore, 1,000 coins contained 773.44 ounces of silver when minted. By contrast, $1,000 face value of pre-1965 U.S. silver dimes, quarters, or half-dollars contained 723.4 ounces of silver, a difference of fifty ounces.

When minted, a $1,000 face value bag contained 723.4 ounces of silver. Due to wear, however, a bag of circulated coins yields approximately 715 ounces when refined; therefore, to calculate an accurate price per ounce, divide the cost by 715. A bag weights a little under 55 pounds on a bathroom scale.
http://www.certifiedmint.com/silver.htm

http://www.certifiedmint.com/images/MercDimeex.gif
Junk silver Mercury Dimes
.715 per $1 face x $5 roll of dimes (worn as above) = 3.575 oz pure silver content
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11960&item=3939750877&rd=1
Sold at $21.50 as above = $6.01 an ounce
$1,000 buys 166.4 ounces pure silver equivalent

20 ounce roll .999 ‘name brand’ minted rounds
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3940608448&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Sold at $155 = $7.75 per ounce
$1,000 buys 129 ounces of pure silver

20 1 ounce Silver Eagles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3939845553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Sold at $185 = $9.25 per ounce
$1,000 buys 108.1 ounces of pure silver

Think it over and take your pick, consider that people will learn about REAL silver content pretty quickly -- if silver becomes a regular medium of exchange currency or barter after the FRN dollar collapse or even being blasted virtually into the stone age... again I say small denominations, easily recognizable as silver, IMPOSSIBLE to counterfeit well, these little coins will be in high demand as TRADITIONAL universal trade currency.

Maybe you could start a new :hahaha: local 'bank' with your many silver dimes... comments are welcome from all.

I hope that I am the jerry that you are appreciating.

Excellent post (as far as I am concerned)!

This should help to get the point across.

Cannot understand why people do not get the realities of the silver situation.

Must be they place it in the category of, "too good to be true."

[koyaanisqatsi]

I hope that I am the jerry that you are appreciating.

Excellent post (as far as I am concerned)!

OOPS! :smokin:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

PONCE said this above: "Well buddy, I'll stay with my one oz round silver coins and take your mercury dimes for small loose change when ever I buy something."

"Place a one oz round silver coin on a scale and then do the same with the mercury dimes and see how many will that be equal to, remember also that mercury dimes are not .999 pure silver like one oz round silver."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So sorry to confuse you with Ponce here, Jerry! You know how it is when a man like me gets on in his years, now mere names are so easy to confuse... actually you two guys are very different, yet much the same, just like I like my friends to be. All should have GOOD COMMON SENSE, otherwise variety in viewpoint is just superb!

And you KNOW I appreciate you, buddy. We're waiting until July 1... 2005!
:coolbeer:

[Hobo]

I am living on a tight budget, so I can spend only about $50 every two weeks. I've been doing this for about 6 months. I started with eagles, then switched to rounds, then 90% dimes and halfs. It's been a learning process, starting with the eagles because they are advertised everywhere. Then realizing rounds were cheaper, then reading the recommendations on 90%.
I wish that I had more money to spend, but our low inflation rate has taken a bit of a toll on the family. Now I learn that things are shakey at work. I'd feel safer if I had a giant safe full of coins, but I guess that I'm way ahead of most sheeple. I was thinking of getting some of those 1 gram bars of gold from apmex.com for about $22 each. But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you? Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold?

Any could some explain to me why the date July1, 2005 keeps popping up?Sorry but I'm still wet behind the ears on this stuff! :D

[koyaanisqatsi]

I was thinking of getting some of those 1 gram bars of gold from apmex.com for about $22 each. Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold?
I like 1/10 gold Eagles or Maple Leafs but those would be OK, I think small denominations when money is rare. Tiny Pamp Suisse 1g bars may not be as easily recognized as 'proof' unless in the 'certified package' -- I cannot say. I'd go with 1/10 oz bullion grade US coins myself.

I even think of sewing some valuable compact gold inside a perhaps shirt seam -- could get you someplace safe, and remain undectected until useful-- I understand downed USAF pilots sometimes carry a couple of issued gold sovereigns for this purpose today, no way to verify. Some say buy 1/3 gold, 2/3 silver -- but I say have at least SOME gold, however meager, to satisfy every contingency...

But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you?
I think this is mostly BS, but I select some of each for security in any option. Confiscation is not likely to be considerate or polite, respectful of collectors... but it might, so I get some cheaper versions of those in no more than VF+ condition if I pay much premium -- too expensive so get cheap numismatics.

Any could some explain to me why the date July1, 2005 keeps popping up?Sorry but I'm still wet behind the ears on this stuff! :D
Sorry to lose you on that, Hobo -- Jerry has a 'vision' of that date being the BIG ONE, the ultimate CRASH, and I was ribbing him a bit... I enjoy my friend Jerry's fiesty visionary attitude -- you are able to review some of his older posts from the past by clicking his name. Good to know you here Hobo, I'm a poor 'hobo' too, I assure you.
I'm glad you don't have to be a rich 'investor class' to enjoy GIM
and some PEACE OF MIND. :coolbeer:

[Hobo]

Thanks koyaanisqatsi for your input. I think that I might buy one of those 1 gram bars and see what they are like. I thought they come in a plastic package with a description on it. They are inexpensive for those of us on a tight budget ($22ea), so I could buy one of those and a few silver rounds per pay period.

My boss told me at 4:30pm on friday that things are getting dicey at work. Oh, just great! Funny thing, he is one of those sheeple in the stock market. Maybe the whole place shuts down someday, and he'll be knocing on my door looking for a crust of bread while I count my silver coins! :beer:

[Veli Hopea]

I'd like to remind you about few things:

1) People like coins
2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds
3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver.
4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin
5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar

[PONCE]

Hey guys? remember that when you buy a piece of PM instead of the whole thing the % that you pay is higher.

One oz round will be as well known as the silver coins for they will be part of the future MAD currency.

To you new guys, I am glad that you finally decided to do something about protecting yourselves and your family, better late than never.

[koyaanisqatsi]

I'd like to remind you about few things:

1) People like coins
2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds
3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver.
4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin
5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar


Great input Veli Hopea, let me try and INCORPORATE here...
Now a decision making grid:

Score each category of purchase on a scale of 1-5

#1 is very bad.....#3 is neutral......#5 is very good

1) People like coins

Old 90% US coin................4 (very common)
Silver Dollars.....................5
Silver rounds....................3
Silver Eagles.....................5
Silver bars........................1
Gold coins bullion...............5 (mint BU grade)
Old Gold VF coins...............5
Gold bars..........................2

2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds

Old 90% US coin...............4 (very common)
Silver Dollars ...................5
Silver rounds....................1
Silver Eagles....................5
Silver bars.......................1
Gold coins bullion..............5 (mint)
Old Gold VF coins.............4 (not true collectors grade)
Gold bars........................1

3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver.
(note that this is a 'survival' thread, and so silver is likely to be monetized, slow industry demand, JMO)

Old 90% US coin.............1
Silver Dollars...................1
Silver rounds..................5
Silver Eagles..................5
Silver bars......................5
Gold coins bullion.............5
Old Gold VF coins.............3
Gold bars........................5

4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin

Old 90% US coin.............5
Silver Dollars .................5
Silver rounds..................3
Silver Eagles..................5
Silver bars.....................1
Gold coins bullion............4
Old Gold VF coins...........5
Gold bars......................2

5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar

Old 90% US coin...........5
Silver Dollars ...............5
Silver rounds................3
Silver Eagles................5
Silver bars...................1
Gold coins bullion..........5
Old Gold VF coins..........3 (questionable recognition, i.e. how much gold in a 1900 US 20 Dollars?)
Gold bars....................2(possible fake w/o sealed package?)

Initial cost per ounce weighted times 2 (for most of us)

Old 90% US coin............10
Silver Dollars ................2
Silver rounds.................5
Silver Eagles.................2
Silver bars....................6
Gold coins bullion............5
Old Gold VF coins............4
Gold bars.......................5

Small denomination or size purchase

Old 90% US coin............5
Silver Dollars.................3
Silver rounds.................3
Silver Eagles.................3
Silver bars....................1
Gold coins bullion...........4 1/10 oz or 1/20 oz
Old Gold VF coins..........3 1/6 or 1/8 oz @92% minimum
Gold bars.....................5 (1g bar ingot)

Likelyhood of NO Confiscation (hypothetical relative values expressed)

Old 90% US coin...........5
Silver Dollars ...............5
Silver rounds................2
Silver Eagles................4
Silver bars...................2
Gold coins bullion..........3
Old Gold VF coins.........5
Gold bars....................2

TOTAL 'SURVIVAL' DESIRABILITY SCORES:

PERFECT SCORE ...........50

Old 90% US coin...........39
Silver Dollars ...............31
Silver rounds................25
Silver Eagles................34
Silver bars...................18
Gold coins bullion..........36
Old Gold VF coins.........32
Gold bars....................24

Note that I did not attempt an estimate of relative ROIs, since this is a survival type scenario I presume, an investment to maximize one's asset security in every contingency considered. I took that to mean a trade 'barter economy' with silver becoming monetized in some manner... to replace currency as we know it.
These are just my own weighted picks, but there are many ways to decide when speculating about the unknowable future. Many ways to weigh a complex decision... Spread investment around to satisfy one's self if budget permits, if not maybe get the most bang for a little $ bucks... JMO, not knowing the best for everyone. Enjoying the posting as you can see, :burnout:

[Anthony]

I run my silver 50-50, half rounds and eagles, the other 90% junk.

I figure for land, etc the rounds and eagles will come in handy.

The junk is for everything else. I prefer dimes. I figeure they wil get the most circulation. Then quarters, then whatever else I can get cheap. Got a bunch of halves at a pawn shop the last week for $2.25 each. Bought all he had, and got a call from him today, so am dropping by tomorrow for 20 more. His 1/10 gold eagles are still $75 each, but am slowly talking him down.

Pawn brokers and jewelers want to move the stuff fast if they get it, so get your name out in your area.

[l_wo0]

But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you? Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold?


Here's a good link to think about:

http://certifiedmint.com/myths_lies.htm

The section on confiscation was helpful to me.

Louis

[lone ranger]

Thanks to everyone who answered my question.

Alot of you have mentioned rounds. I have been buying dimes, rounds, and 1 oz Engelhard bars. (I seem to find better deals on the 1 oz bars than the rounds.) If the dollar becomes worthless and PM is the way we go, why will rounds be better to have than bars? They are both 1 oz of silver.

Or are you generically useing the word "rounds" for any piece of .999 1 oz silver?

This is an interesting site.
Thanks for your comments!!!!

[silvergonecrazy]

hi everyone--new to site---had a question about which mercury dime and which franklin halve was the right one to by in bulk

[MtnValley]

hi everyone--new to site---had a question about which mercury dime and which franklin halve was the right one to by in bulk

If you're buying for silver content, the year/mint is irrelevant IMHO.

I'm not sure why you want to specifically stay with Mercs and Frankies, but there are benefits...one knows they're 90% at a glance, whereas Roosies (dirty ones where you can't just look at the edges and trust it) may require some squintin' time to verify before thowing 'em in the bag. The dates are plenty big enough on '64 Kennedys, but you still have to look at the date (if edges are dirty) on each coin...not a prob with Franklins.

That said-- I've found (and perhaps others have as well) that the Mercs I get typically are more worn on average than the silver Roosies. More worn=less silver content. I put together a bag of all Mercs just for grins, and probably should have weighed it prior to "storage" just to verify the cumulative effect, if any.

The best combination IMHO of "bang for buck" and "easy to work with" is 90% quarters...no squinting required, usually the same price as dimes (with halves often carrying a premium to that price).

(edited in) I just looked upthread and see that I recapped some points that were already made. I would like to add that I think diversification is important if you can manage it, as one is then prepared for whatever form factor is in greatest demand. Then again, I'm not as firmly in the "SHTF" camp as some here...I can't categorically refute such a "Mad Max" scenario as being possible, nor can I view it as likely (or even probable), as some do. I'd rather prepare for possible eventualities, without choosing one to the exclusion of all others.

[silvergonecrazy]

thanks--- every little bit counts if you are part of the shtf group--its not just that but i also believe that silver will gain significantly anyway--so either way at least ill have some silver and probably the same in small denom gold---

[PONCE]

Where I wasen't 100% sure two weeks ago I am sure now, buy PM and get ready.

[lhslancers]

Ponce what do you see that makes you so sure now?

[Argentsum]

Hey Ponce!


I just noticed that you live up in the woods somewhere in Oregon.

That makes us neighbors:beer:

[silvergonecrazy]

i can't find which quarters are 90% silver---any help would be nice --thanks

[hernancortes]

silvergonecrazy,

any pre-65 quarter is 90%

[silvergonecrazy]

thank you for the help