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Tachyon Flare
06-20-2003, 09:45 PM
Inflation or Deflation?

Don Stott

Deflation is all the rage now. Everyone says we're going to have "deflation," and I place that in quotes, because of the fact that it is impossible for us to have true "deflation," now. Lower prices on some things, surely, but not "deflation." Deflation, means there is a decrease in the currency supply, and inflation, means an increase in the currency supply. Look it up in the dictionary if you don't believe me. Some prices will go down, and especially real estate. Real estate, is the only thing holding the economy together now, in my opinion, and when real estate goes, it will all go. I believe the Greenspan controlled Federal Reserve, will lower rates once again pretty soon, in an effort to keep the real estate bubble afloat, for just a smidgen longer. This will mean more re-financing, more people buying homes, and more real estate activity. Lowering interest rates, always does this, even in California, where the real estate bubble will burst with intensity…eventually.

How can prices go down, when the currency supply is going up, and obviously, the value of the currency is decreasing? Easy, once again. Profits will go down, meaning prices will be lower. Car manufacturers are already giving cars away at no profit, just to keep the labor force busy. Laying off employees, would cost far more than selling cars at no profit, so the zero percent finance continues, and now is added, actual cash kickbacks, plus zero percent financing. Homes are now being sold by realtors who have cut their commissions from the usual 7% to far less. Why? Because they are now fiercely competing against other realtors for every sale, the volume of which has faded as the sunset. My son sold his home in California, and the realtor charged him 3%. Computer prices tumbled a couple of years ago, and things like this screw around with official figures, making prices officially go down, which DC birdbrain economists call "deflation."

Prices going down, have limits. They won't go below production costs, other than to forestall bankruptcy. No builder is going to build a house, which cost $100,000 to build, and sell it for $90,000. He may not make a profit, and sell it for $100,000, rather than the $125,000 he had hoped for, but that is prices going down, not deflation. Prices going down, are a sure sign of trouble. In prosperous times, prices do not go down. In prosperous times, people sell things for more than they paid for them, because in prosperous times, there is a huge demand for consumer goods, homes, cars, TV sets, computers, et al. When times are bad, as they are now, people cannot afford to buy, and to offer them an incentive, auto makers finance them at zero percent, give huge rebates, or as is happening now, give both. A Dairy Queen, before it closes for the winter, usually sells things cheaper than in spring or July, because they want to use up the mix, and other materials, which will not keep through the winter. The economic winter is setting in, and businesses, service people, and just about everyone, are selling on the cheap. This is to survive, keep from laying off employees, get rid of inventories, or a host of other reasons, but this is a temporary situation. Realtors will cut commissions to stay in business, but if that fails, they will go under, and the strongest will survive. This is true in all fields. The strongest and most efficient will survive.

Example: Why am I usually the cheapest place to buy precious metals? I am a one man show, with no employees, no rent to pay, no advertising budget, and I am one hell of an efficient guy. Why does the local newspaper in my town sell full page ads for $300, which normally would sell for twice that? Because it's a lousy paper, has competition from another town close by, people locally hate his liberal politics, and are not renewing subscriptions. Will it survive? I don't know, but I hope not. I won't renew, and I know lots of others who haven't and won't. Will a local realtor, not having to pay a percentage to Coldwell Banker, Century 21, or other, make it, because of not having to pay that percentage? Possibly. Franchises always cost a franchise fee, plus a percentage of profits, as opposed to a guy who opens up with no alliances, no percentages to pay, and no franchise fees. Franchise operations have it down pat, search locations, and know what they are doing, which is a good selling point. Baskin-Robbins, is probably one of the least successful franchises, and I drove them nuts when I had a chain of ten ice cream parlours in Philly, 30 years ago. The efficient will survive, and they can cut profits and overhead to the bone to defeat mistakenly called "deflation." "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

Back alley garages, proprietored by someone who knows what he is doing, can undercut new car agency repairs, by many dollars per hour…and survive. Joe Blow's frozen delight, can undercut Dairy Queen by not only the franchise fee, but the 9% of gross, which Dairy Queen charges its franchisees. It's all 5% butterfat mix, no matter under whose name it is sold. I could go on, of course, but you get the point. "Deflation," so called, means that warehouses are emptied, prices are cut to the bone, as are commissions, rates, interest, and even rents and sale prices.
Inflation, on the other hand, by dictionary definition, means an increase in the currency supply, and this is happening all around the world, at the same time, for the first time in history. All nations are inflating, and all currencies are going down in purchasing power. The so-called "strong" currency, is only "strong," in relation to other currencies which are proliferating. Strong is in actuality 'weak,' only 'less weak.' There is not a single "strong" currency, compared to what they were 30 years ago. Inflation will continue, till the currency crashes, whereas miss-named "deflation," can only continue till the limit of cost and survivability is reached, and then it is over.

Deflation and inflation at the same time? Only if one miss-defines deflation. Having both at the same time, is like saying an elevator is going up and down at the same time, or a car is stopped and moving at the same time. Both at the same time, is the same as saying the dollar is buying more and less at the same time. Impossible. What can happen, and is happening, is that the currencies are going down in value, do to their supply being raised, and prices going down at the same time, because of efficiency, over-stock, or desperation. We then have inflation and prices going down…briefly, not inflation and deflation. Foods cannot be cooked and frozen at the same time, and corn cannot be planted and harvested at the same time, which is what inflation and deflation together is…an impossibility.

With inflation, all things go up in currency prices. Is the price going up, or the dollar going down? The value of things purchased stays the same. A Gold Eagle or Krugerrand will always be one ounce of gold, regardless of whether it sells for $365, or $4535. The gold doesn't change; only the unbacked currency with which it is bought. This, quite obviously means, that we should trade our unbacked dollars for things tangible, which will remain constant in content, when the buck slides to ever lower purchasing power.

Want an example? In Zimbabwe, a beer costs Z$650 (Zimbabwe dollars), and a roll of single ply toilet paper, with 72 sections, costs Z$1,000. In other words, in Zimbabwe, it is cheaper to use Z$10 bills for toilet paper than to buy it. Will the dollar come to that? Why shouldn't it? The process of endless printing, is the same in both countries. Protect yourself!

Don Stott
June 20, 2003

Tachyon Flare
06-21-2003, 02:43 AM
Disinflation: A drop in the inflation rate, i.e. a reduction in the rate at which prices rise.

Stagflation: a period of slow economic growth and high unemployment (stagnation) while prices rise (inflation)

Deflation: A decline in general price levels, often caused by a reduction in the supply of money or credit. Deflation can also be brought about by direct contractions in spending, either in the form of a reduction in government spending, personal spending or investment spending.

Deflation has often had the side effect of increasing unemployment in an economy, since the process often leads to a lower level of demand in the economy. opposite of inflation.

Reflation: The intentional reversal of deflation through a monetary action by a government.

Hyperinflation: A period of rapid inflation that leaves a country's currency virtually worthless.

flagellation: An attempt to revive an economic system based on unfounded dogmatic policies by beating, flogging, whipping, or scourging. :)

The pre-depression economic lexicon that is brewing in Wall Street puzzles me. The question Don Stott asked "Deflation and inflation at the same time? Only if one miss-defines deflation," the recent debate on the various "flations" is rather mystical. I would argue that current economic system is undergoing a contraction of economic activity that is NOT resulting in a decline of prices, while the monetary aggregate is expanding at an incredible rate. M3 of May 2003 stands 8658.6, it was 4091.3 Jan 1990, that is more than double! The costs of education, healthcare, utilities, are rising while the prices of items are relatively stable, but how long can this continue? Most of loose monetary stance no thanks to the Fed is propping (or fueling) the financial sector at the expense of the physical economy. As the nation's manufacturing base continues to decline due to intense foreign competition by their use of low wage labor markets, US Corporation will have no choice to shutdown domestic plants. This continued erosion of manufacturing base along with federal and state deficits; consumer and corporate debt, will eventually at a certain threshold collapse the US dollar. The Government is ultimately attempting to reflate the economy through various financial instruments that are exacerbating the existing problems. What do you guys think?

FoundingFathers
06-21-2003, 03:18 AM
Another great tidbit from Bloomberg radio - they had some investment guru on today and they asked him about the Philly Fed survey. He said it was a bit disappointing but the GOOD NEWS was the manufacturing currently makes up only 20% of the economy and the effect on GDP is not as much as it was 20/30 years ago. Yeah, great news alright!
I guess construction makes up 50% of GDP by now, and we all know
that those jobs will continue to grow forever.

Regarding Inflation/Deflation; some quick thoughts - I believe we are on the way to Deflation. Because of this the Fed is severly inflating the money supply - this however is only a temporary fix - when the money supply begins to be destroyed faster than the Fed can create (and that will happen) we will than be in the K-blizzard. It is the massive default of the debt that will lead to true delation and destroy the dollar. The default will contract the money supply which will send the globe into a
depression. The depression will lower the demand for dollars (currency)
which will cause the dollar to crash even though we are in a deflationary environment. The dollar is simply a securitization of the tax paying ability of the US citizen and Corporations less entilements/debt/defense
and the cost of other government activiities. That is why the dollar is so overvalued - it's like a stock with a negative book value but trading at $300 a share. The demand for dollars at these levels is not much different from the demand for tech stocks three years ago.

Today GM floated $13billion in "pension bonds". They are borrowing money to fund their $22billion pension liability. The bond proceeds will
go directly to the investment managers of their pension account - let's say they have a asset allocation of 60% stock and 40% bonds - they
are buying stocks @ 40X earnings and bonds at all time highs! What
happens if/when the market drops 50% and bond yields shoot up 300 bps? Goodbye pension bonds - goodbye GM. As a friend of mine used
to say to people who lost money in the market - "that money is dead - it went to money heaven". When all this new currency goes to money heaven, when all the securitized mortgages issued by FRE, and FNM go to money heaven and the US taxpaying citizens in put on the hook - goodbye dollar - This is my image of deflation. The complete destruction of debt/credit bubble. The Fed is mearly trying to string things out hoping things will get better but they are fighting this monster with the very fuel that it will consume and destroy. This will all end very badly I'm afraid. That is why I am really trying to accumulate as much physical gold and silver as I can.

Tachyon Flare
06-21-2003, 05:24 AM
"The default will contract the money supply which will send the globe into a depression. The depression will lower the demand for dollars (currency) which will cause the dollar to crash even though we are in a deflationary environment."
"The demand for dollars at these levels is not much different from the demand for tech stocks three years ago."

No doubt a default would create a unimaginable financial cascade effect, however although I do not doubt the demand for dollars will drastically decline hence a contraction of the money supply, do you think this will be deflationary outside and inflationary within the United States? Since this country is heavily intoxicated with imports, under a collapse would this not have a domestic inflationary effect or do you think because of the consumer / corporate / foreign debt (not to mention MBS) obligations this be both deflationary within and outside the US?

"Today GM floated $13billion in "pension bonds". They are borrowing money to fund their $22billion pension liability. The bond proceeds will go directly to the investment managers of their pension account - let's say they have a asset allocation of 60% stock and 40% bonds - they are buying stocks @ 40X earnings and bonds at all time highs! What happens if/when the market drops 50% and bond yields shoot up 300 bps? Goodbye pension bonds - goodbye GM."

Completely agree. The auto manufacturers are strained as it is, Moody's recently lowered GM's long-term debt rating, and it is not looking good.

Related Article: http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030529/1216000772_2.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030529/1216000772_2.html)

"This will all end very badly I'm afraid. That is why I am really trying to accumulate as much physical gold and silver as I can."

As much as I am painfully aware of the imminent crisis, I still cannot fathom social and political reactions on how this will play out … I pray we are both wrong FF.

FoundingFathers
06-21-2003, 04:09 PM
Amen and I concur. I pray that such a collapse never occurs - for my sake and my childrens - however, the more I study it the more convinced we are quickly heading there.

Regarding Deflation vs. Inflation - the "great debate". This issue has been swirling around in my mind for over a year. One day I come to the conclusion that a dollar collapse MUST be inflationary (hyper). Another day I recogonize the characteristics of the K-cycle and convince myself that we are in the deflationary K-winter. Back and forth I've gone.

Recently I've come up with another explanation - and this "theory" may
explain why there is so much confusion over this issue. I start with the
premise that the US dollar is actually a "security" that is used as a currency. We have securitized the American people and Corporate America's stream of future tax revenue. We use this security as currency. Much the same way that AOL used it's common stock as currency to buy Time Warner. That being said, today we are continuing
to issue more "stock" (US dollars) backed by more debt (US treasuries) which are backed by you,me, and every other US taxpaying entity. The
$44trillion dollar deficit we have heard about is primarily due to future unfunded "pension" and "retirement" benefits. Similar to GM's situation -
only worse. I am getting a little off point here, so I'll regress.

Let's now assume that the US dollar is in fact a security. In the scenario we painted in this thread, the dollar will collapse due to the destruction (default) of trillions of dollars worldwide, causing a global depression. Now we get to the deflation/inflation point. We have a mind set that deflation means prices drop in dollar terms - but a dollar collapse could lead to a worthless dollar where a loaf of bread may cost
thousands of FRNs. Is this not inflation? In fact, is this not hyperinflation? Well yes, it is - in terms of dollars. This dollar collapse scenerio is really a security collapse. The stock value of the US (the dollar) will drop similar to the way an internet stock dropped over the last three years. But to me, deflation will occur in the realm of REAL MONEY. REAL MONEY is not the dollar - it is Gold and Silver. The dollar is a security being used as currency. In terms of REAL MONEY this scenario will certainly be deflationary. Today the cost of the average home is roughly 500 ounces of gold. In our scenario it may drop to 100 ounces of gold, although in dollar terms a new home may cost tens of millions. This gets to the crux of Greenspan's arguement in his '67 essay " Gold and Economic Freedom". Gold will protect you from the policy of the statists. Our frightening scenario will fulfill the characteristics of a true K-winter - the elimination of debt and credit through default and destruction and the massive decline in general prices (that is in the terms of REAL MONEY - Gold and Silver-NOT the dollar).

For the average Joe this scenario will appear to be hyperinflation - for the gold bug it will clearly be deflation. This is primarily what has happened in Argentina - the currency collapsed, bread went up many fold in it's currency (hyperinflation), but for the holder of gold and silver (the wealth protectors and REAL MONEY) it is a K-winter to the tee - and I'm sure they are the ones currently buying up valuable assets at
a small fraction of cost in gold/silver terms.

In summary, my theory says that the K-winter will produce a hyperinflationary effect for the US dollar -but only because the US dollar is not really money, but a security. In the world of REAL MONEY the K-winter will indeed be a deflationary death spiral with REAL MONEY (not cash) being KING.

I would appreciate any comments or critics of this thought process.

FF
'

gpond
06-21-2003, 05:26 PM
Here's my 2 cents - a stab at it.

China has us in a jiujitsu death-grip. As long as their currency continues to be pegged to the dollar we can increase the money supply all we want and it won't revive domestic prices on ChinaMart manufactured consumer goods. Because of this, what's left of our domestic manufacturing base will continue to suffer a lack of pricing power or declining prices. Our manufacturing base will continue to disappear.

China is stretching us back just like a rubber band. In Act 2 China waits for the right moment of maximum USA deflationary depressionary pain. Then, whap, they release the rubber band and allow their currency to float. It will soar vis-a-vis the hyper-printed dollar thus causing finally domestic hyperinflating prices in all manufactured goods. Goodbye dollar, goodbye ballgame. Not good.

OTOH, they could pressure the US with the mere threat of a dollar-destructive float or non-float for some time, first.

Tachyon Flare
06-21-2003, 08:26 PM
I too have been vacillating between the so-called "inflation vs. deflation" debates, however I am convinced that it will be hyperinflationary in terms of dollars and as you stated deflationary for the Gold bug and nations dependent upon the "security" of the dollar. As hyperinflation takes effect, corporations will be crushed due to loss of capital (loss of purchasing power hence high production cost), pension crisis obligations as you mentioned, unserviceable debt, and foreign competition hence bankrupting the nation state because of dramatic decline of tax revenues. I think your assessment of the current crisis is more than reasonable.

Gpond,
Something I have been thinking about these past few weeks. After the “Asian Crisis,” the only way Malaysia was able to protect itself was pegging the ringgit to the Dollar with strict exchange controls. The Asian currencies like the Hong Kong Dollar (HKD), Chinese Yuan (CNY or RMB), and the Malaysian Ringgit (MYR) are officially pegged to the dollar. You make an acute point gpond. At a certain threshold, these currencies will have no choice revalue their currencies in an entropic dollar denominated world economy. I have to concur that in such a scenario the China would float their currency (Even a possibility to fix a gold reserve requirement). China’s peripheral nations (like Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong) will peg their currency to Yuan to stabilize fluctuations, increase trade and be able to control inflation and to create a stable environment for foreign investments. This revaluations of Asian currency will as you state will “hyper inflate prices of manufactured goods.” Just as the British Gold Standard 1870-1914 ultimately dictated monetary policy, whereas the US dollar dominated under Bretton Woods systems (1945-1968), the Chinese Yuan will have considerable advantage in the 21st century. I agree, this “rubber band” will eventually not be able to withstand continued tension, not good at all.

-Tachyon

gpond
06-24-2003, 08:32 PM
I'm reading the book Tomorrow's Gold by Marc Faber. I recently came across this passage where Faber quotes Robert Prechter on inflation/deflation. This passage made my brain explode. See if it does yours too!

I recently received an excellent report by my friend Robert Prechter, asking "Can the Fed Stop Deflation?". Prechter (author of the best-selling Conquer the Crash) makes the very valid case that the Fed or any other central bank cannot stop deflation. However, he adds a caveat at the end of his report by stating:

While I discern no obvious forces that would counteract deflation, after deflation is another matter. At the bottom, when there is little credit left to destroy, currency inflation, perhaps even hyperinflation, could well come into play. In fact, I think this outcome has a fairly high probability in the next Kondratieff cycle. When a government embarks on a policy of currency hyperinflation - such as the Confederate States did in the 1860's Germany did in the early 1920's or France did after World War II - the monetary path is utterly different from that of deflation, but ironically, the end result is about the same as that of a deflationary crash. At the end of hyperinflation, total bank accounts denominated in the hyperinflated currency are worth far less than they were, sometimes nothing at all. Total debts have shrunk or disappeared because the notes were denominated in depreciated money... In this sense, even with hyperinflation, the end result is the destruction of money and credit, which is deflation.
(Robert Prechter, The Elliott Wave Theorist, April 2002
We dealt with domestic hyperinflation in 1980s Mexico and Latin America and simultaneous deflation through the exchange rate mechanism earlier in Chapter 10. In Prechter's opinion, there is perhaps some way that inflation could accelerate in the immediate future. He writes:

How can you tell if my conclusion about deflation is wrong and that inflation or hyperinflation is taking place instead of deflation? There are two sensitive barometers of major monetary trends. One is the currency market. If the price of the Dollar against other currencies begins to plummet, then the market either fears Dollar inflation or that the value of the Dollar will not hold up in a climate of waning confidence. The other, which is more important, is the gold market. I hope to recommend gold at lower prices near the bottom of the deflationary trend, but if gold were to move above US$400 per ounce, I would probably be convinced that a major low had passed.
Well, while I agree with Prechter that the Fed cannot stop deflation, I am afraid that, in the US, deflation will not occur the same way it happened in the 1930s, when prices fell by around 30%. Rather, I believe it will occur, as Prechter points out, through the currency market, as a result of the Dollar depreciating sharply against a basket of commodities - if not "in the immediate future", at least within the next two to three years. The reason for this pessimism is simply that the US, with its huge debt burden, cannot afford deflation, as it would bankrupt the system almost instantly.

gpond
06-24-2003, 08:39 PM
Has anyone heard or seen the following word before?
Should we rush to patent?

hyperstagflation

Tachyon Flare
06-25-2003, 04:11 AM
gpond, I believe hyperstagflation comes under the same category of flagellation: An attempt to revive an economic system based on unfounded dogmatic policies by beating, flogging, whipping, or scourging. What say you and I patent this nouveau buzzword and live off the royalties? It sounds like a desperate attempt to bend reality. :D

Clearly, there is no decline of general price levels, however, there is substantial decline of economic activity, from the Federal Reserve's perspective they are ultimately concerned with a negative asset deflationary spiral. This ranges anything from securities (or as FF already mentioned securities like mortgage backed securities), common stock to housing prices (There is an inverse relationship between interest and real estate prices, as interest rates decrease, housing prices increase). The continuation of lowering interest rates is perpetuating this phenomenon, yet this is ultimately on borrowed time, it is ephemeral wealth generated at the expense of the future. The lowering of interest rate is being used for propping up assets; the credit is being utilized for non-productive ?wealth.? No amount of financial engineering will be able to sustain this so-called wealth, as you clearly pointed out the US ?cannot afford deflation (assets that is), as it would bankrupt the system almost instantly.? Tomorrow?s FOMC meeting should be interesting.

Tachyon Flare
06-25-2003, 04:42 AM
Here's my 2 cents - a stab at it.

China has us in a jiujitsu death-grip. As long as their currency continues to be pegged to the dollar we can increase the money supply all we want and it won't revive domestic prices on ChinaMart manufactured consumer goods. Because of this, what's left of our domestic manufacturing base will continue to suffer a lack of pricing power or declining prices. Our manufacturing base will continue to disappear.

China is stretching us back just like a rubber band. In Act 2 China waits for the right moment of maximum USA deflationary depressionary pain. Then, whap, they release the rubber band and allow their currency to float. It will soar vis-a-vis the hyper-printed dollar thus causing finally domestic hyperinflating prices in all manufactured goods. Goodbye dollar, goodbye ballgame. Not good.

OTOH, they could pressure the US with the mere threat of a dollar-destructive float or non-float for some time, first.


gpond,
Were you attempting to fulfill a prophecy? ;) Check out this article:

Is China Scrapping Dollar Peg? Not So Fast: William Pesek Jr.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&refer=columnist_pesek&sid=aHloVmNXrUKw

"Citigroup Inc., Deutsche Bank AG and UBS AG last week joined Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in predicting China will scrap its 8.277 peg with the U.S. dollar within a year."

gpond
06-25-2003, 12:38 PM
No amount of financial engineering will be able to sustain this so-called wealth, as you clearly pointed out the US ?cannot afford deflation (assets that is), as it would bankrupt the system almost instantly.?


Tachyon Flare,

I cannot take credit for pointing that out. Those were the words of Marc Faber.

Another thing I've been thinking -- If FRN's are a security as FoundingFathers points out, then are not securities also money in the common understanding of the term? When I look at my stock statement, don't I look to see how much money I have? Yes I do. And I will take that money into account when I decide whether or not to buy a new car or new home.

I do not know whether any of the "M" money supply numbers (M1, M2, M3, MZM, ...) take this kind of money into account. If we created an M$ definition that did take that money into account, then perhaps the total money is not expanding, but contracting. Might this not also be a kind of deflation? (The so-called wealth effect?)

With all exchange traded monies being essentially "floating abstractions" not tied to any commodity - then how could one tell if we are having inflation or deflation? Our unit of measure is fictitious - also measured against other imaginary units. We may have a "structural" deflation (think China), but commodities, housing, and common stocks are all signaling a monetary inflation.

Structural deflation vs. Monetary inflation. Hmm..

Would somebody please close the window? I think I feel a draft.

Tachyon Flare
06-26-2003, 02:07 AM
Structural deflation vs. Monetary inflation. Hmm..

Would somebody please close the window? I think I feel a draft.

Hmmm . . . . I really like that term "structural deflation vs. monetary inflation," I think you just summed it up, a reverse leverage collapse with a explosion of general prices. We will see how this process unfolds; we truly do live in uncertain times . . .

gpond
06-26-2003, 01:07 PM
Well, at the risk of appearing to form a mutual admiration society, I like your term: "a reverse leverage collapse (oh yes!) with an explosion of general prices."

FoundingFathers
06-27-2003, 01:18 AM
when sombody asks me " do you think we will have inflation or deflation?".

My response will be "Yes!"