We The People shuts down

[Wingmaster05]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/business/30tax.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1190355928-DO1c92aPUB33cTwX2nG2Uw
A Web site that sells materials stating that individuals can legally stop paying taxes has been shut on the order of a federal judge.

Judge Thomas J. McAvoy, a senior judge in the Northern District of New York who issued the order on Aug. 9, wrote that the First Amendment did not protect the two organizations that operate the Web site, or their founder, because the site incited criminal conduct. Judge McAvoy ruled that some people who went to the Web site stopped paying taxes, causing the government harm.

Judge McAvoy also ordered that the names, addresses, telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and Social Security numbers of every person who received materials on how to stop paying taxes be turned over to the government.

I tried the search function but it excluded 'we' and 'the', so it was quite difficult to tell if anyone has posted this information already. I guess it's score one for Anty Ep's argument...

[Horn]

I forget, but there was a site I saw once that could find the ghost of shutdown websites.

Perhaps we could find the ghost of "We The People"?

[Wingmaster05]

I forget, but there was a site I saw once that could find the ghost of shutdown websites.

Perhaps we could find the ghost of "We The People"?

perhaps you mean http://www.waybackmachine.org?

I cannot visit this site as it is blocked by my college server (no clue why)...i remember using it occasionally for older websites. People could archive select sites so in the event that a website or individual web page was 'erased' or shut down it was provable to have existed in the past.

[HonestMoney]

I couldn't get to http://www.waybackmachine.org, but I found the Wayback Machine on the Internet Archive web site at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

The archive for the "We The People" web site (http://givemeliberty.org) can be found at

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://givemeliberty.org

HonestMoney

[mjk1971]

Current homepage screenshot below.

It is sad that people have not learned from history. "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

Those adhering to the Constitution must begin to apply principles of Leaderless Resistance in order to survive the jackboot trying to stomp on their necks. There is much to be learned from resistance movements of the past and the present, including the Animal Rights movement (ALF, not PETA showbiz). Agree or disagree with their politics and actions, they are fighting for what they believe is right in the face of a tyranny trying to annihilate them. Tax protestors and full-on Second Amendment advocates face the same tyranny.

One cannot educate the masses about the most verboten topics, such as Tax Resistance, while running an incorporated business as the vehicle. Materials must be published clandestinely, Samisdat in the terminology of the anti-Soviet Russian resistance, using credible pseudonyms and secure printing machinery (preferably one's own). Organization must be loose and uncomplicated, with self-reliant "cells" operating independently toward the same goal, but with no formal ties that allow the thugs to bring down a large section of the "movement" with one shot.

This is only going to get worse, a lot worse, and Americans are woefully unprepared to deal with even the most mild consequences of a Police State stripped of the mask it currently wears. We the People, despite their noble goals, was foolish...it was like riding horse cavalry against tanks.

[Horn]

Current homepage screenshot below.

It is sad that people have not learned from history. "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

Those adhering to the Constitution must begin to apply principles of Leaderless Resistance in order to survive the jackboot trying to stomp on their necks. There is much to be learned from resistance movements of the past and the present, including the Animal Rights movement (ALF, not PETA showbiz). Agree or disagree with their politics and actions, they are fighting for what they believe is right in the face of a tyranny trying to annihilate them. Tax protestors and full-on Second Amendment advocates face the same tyranny.

One cannot educate the masses about the most verboten topics, such as Tax Resistance, while running an incorporated business as the vehicle. Materials must be published clandestinely, Samisdat in the terminology of the anti-Soviet Russian resistance, using credible pseudonyms and secure printing machinery (preferably one's own). Organization must be loose and uncomplicated, with self-reliant "cells" operating independently toward the same goal, but with no formal ties that allow the thugs to bring down a large section of the "movement" with one shot.

This is only going to get worse, a lot worse, and Americans are woefully unprepared to deal with even the most mild consequences of a Police State stripped of the mask it currently wears. We the People, despite their noble goals, was foolish...it was like riding horse cavalry against tanks.

Just thought I would bump that for content.

Nice post...

[AgAuGal]

Very sad, very very sad. Those people have been working so hard against all odds. Kinda like GATA folks.

[Wingmaster05]

whoa, thanks for the correction. I did not want to even try going to the website once I read the article. :(

[Anty Ep]

If people are going to stop paying taxes because they are taking a resistance posture against the government, understand that the government has definitely made that illegal and you are not going to be able to go buy a freakin toolkit to accomplish it. No government on Earth is going to allow any judge to say that it does not have the inherent power to collect an income tax. The USA was the only one that had a constitutional limitation of that kind and it did work the first time round. That question was settled by the constitutional amendment. Back in the 20s. The whole tax resistance "movement" is a publishing industry that makes profit selling erroneous legal materials that have been outdated for over fifty years to gullible patriots.

I say this again and again not because I like the government but because I like patriots and I hate to see them get screwed.

MJK has it pretty close to the mark. If you are going the path of resistance dont expect the government to make it easy for you.

If you do not know the Russian word Samiszdat, then learn it, MJK has introduced you to it and you can thank him for that. Samiszdat publishing is not easy but fun and thrilling and challenging on many levels.

The real tax protest literature is mostly sold by Loompanics and such. Ironically they get away with it dont they? The gun show books that talk about underground economy and such. Those books contain a hell of a lot more useful information than all the tax protester stuff operating under the mistaken premise that tax evasion is legal. It isnt. People who want to accomplish tax evasion for example, without getting pinched, are all over the place and they are not hard to find. I am not going to talk about how that is done but just read up about how criminals do it if you want to get the idea. Did you know criminals owe income taxes on ill gotten gains? That if you dont pay income tax on a dope dealer operation, you can get incarcerated for tax evasion? Interesting huh. You have to wonder why they dont pinch more "narcotrafficantes" of today for tax evasion ya know? Selective enforcement is the toughest, meanest tool the government has to suppress dissent, and it is uniformly used to keep the very kind and type of people interested in tax protest "in line." For example their are tons of dope dealers out there rolling in the cash who never get any shite from the IRS, but if you are David Duke and you stupidly sell a customer list and forget to report the income then you are looking at Jail Time. So who does the government serve, who is really a threat to the established order, the dope dealers or the David dukes? Or take for example Chester Doles who is pulling ten years for felon in possession of a firearm, when the dope dealers in the big cities dont even get arrested when the cops shake them down with guns. Who does this government serve and why?

There should be a dramatic change of world view among the "patriot" movement and in fact that has been underway since the militia movement fizzled. The pretence that the federal government serves "the people" refered to in the Declaration of Independence is very much less than it used to be that is for sure.

All that being said, I always tell people to follow the law even if it is unjust. If you want to learn how to break the laws, you got to go somewhere else for advice but dont expect it to be easy to figure out. If you want to know the law of taxes be smart dont be stupid, get a lawyer who has experience in your area of interest or a CPA or both and pay them for what they know. Believe me people who want to save money LEGALLY and reduce their overall tax bill do this day in and day out and they go to sleep easy at night knowing that the fedgovs are not going to toss them in jail and yet they've still saved money doing it.

[Anty Ep]

Like I said, and thank you for noting it, when they shut these vendors of tax protest materials down, the first thing they do is grab their mailing list and BOOM what do you know, you are now on Uncle's SHITE LIST of "tax protesters." Very unwise to waste money on fake legal advice that doesnt work and will only get you under special scrutiny. Be smart not stupid.

[Large Sarge]

Like I said, and thank you for noting it, when they shut these vendors of tax protest materials down, the first thing they do is grab their mailing list and BOOM what do you know, you are now on Uncle's SHITE LIST of "tax protesters." Very unwise to waste money on fake legal advice that doesnt work and will only get you under special scrutiny. Be smart not stupid.


The best way to combat this is the movie "freedom to fascism"

simply because it teaches jury nullification.

until they change the trial by jury process, they are going to find it very difficult to convict anyone on tax evasion charges, thanks to the late Aaron Russo.

once a certain percentage of the U.S population realizes the income tax is a fraud, then it will be decriminalized, my guess is 25-30%