E-Silver

[red_corundum]

i apologize in advance.. but i was not sure where to post this.

has anyone dealt with e-silver? any place for information? which are the better businesses to deal with purchasing it?

or any e-silver pieces of advice is appreciated.

many thanks in advance

[Infidel]

Why? buy the damn silver. You cant hold esilver, you never know if you gonna get it if something happens to the economy, and you do not even know if there is silver to begin with. The rest of the posts will continue upon this line of thinking i guess.

If you search for a name of any "e-gold" scheme in the search menu you will get and aswer, or the kind of answers you will get here. I has been posted 50 times over

peruse the search function

[Ponce Cuba]

Yep, if you don't hold it you don't own it.

[red_corundum]

you are absolutely correct- if you do not have it- you do not have it.

thanks for the eye opener advice.

red

[jsp_1983]

Why are there a great deal of hostile members towards DGC systems? For once, a truly workable and innovative alternative to national currencies comes along and all I can see are people behaving like Luddites!

None of these DGCs are saying they are going to save you when the world comes to an end and for that, they should not be berated.

They are simply offering a more secure alternative to the banking system that millions of people feel is their only choice when it comes to keeping their savings or spending money somewhere 'safe'.

When it comes to sending a payment for something to the other side of the world, how do you intend to get your lump of gold to that location safely, securely, expediently and easily?

I'm not disputing that when TSHTF and the world is due its impending doom, actually having some precious metals to hand is going to be important to some, but come on- credit due where credit's due.

[azxcvbnm321]

Because digital silver is subject to the same manipulation and unsafe practices we have under our current fiat system. So why bother to change? With all the naked shorting in the silver and commodities market, what's to prevent a bank under a digital silver system to start loaning billions of ounces of digital silver? If someone wants their silver back, the bank can just "borrow" more digital silver from another bank, who then borrows billions of ounces from yet another bank.
How is this system any "safer" than our current system?

[silverharp]

azx.... I agree it could be loaned out but it is possible to have an e silver/gold system where it is not allowed loan out the gold or silver. there are banks that do a similar thing (obviously you pay for the privilage) it would come down to price and good practice

[Infidel]

But in that case you have to trust a banker

[silverharp]

Zhukher - I have to trust alot of things in life. All bankers aren't evil. there are plenty of reputable banks in Switzerland for instance where you can deposit money and the riskiest thing they do is buy short term gov. bonds and they keep a large % of cash in their vaults, I believe the term is a custodial bank (i think that's right) it's normally for rich people eg min 100K deposit etc. but the principal is valid. and how much more so if that type of bank held gold or silver. It could be audited every qtr. and a bank is only as good as it's reputation so that would keep them honest.

[steel_g]

FYI

There is now a primary e-silver dealer.

Here is their link: https://www.phoenixdollar.com/

If you are one of their first 1000 customers, you will get no transaction fees for life.

They are due to launch around 01 August 05.

Tell em you heard about them from #668, steel_g.

[Ponce Cuba]

e-silver = 0-silver :chat: talk to my hand.

[samwheat]

e silver = a promise

And promises are made to be broken

[lhslancers]

Two words. Deak Perera. Read the story. Even though I don't agree with some of the opinions expressed on GIM the one truth is take delivery of your metals.

[azxcvbnm321]

Just $249? to open an account and get ONE ounce of silver? Humm....sounds like a scam to me. Barclay's Capital has applied to open a silver trust ETF, like the ishares Gold trust they already have. I believe the ishares Gold trades on the AMEX, but in anycase, I know it trades on a major market. If I'm going to trade gold or silver, I'd rather do it with the big boys, instead of some fly-by-night operator who could disappear at any time.

By the way, trading is a good way to lose all of your money. The big boys can move prices whenever they want to--you can't. The big boys can call up the CEO of a mining company and get the latest info on supply and demand--you can't. The big boys can borrow millions of dollars on just their promise to pay--you can't. If you're a long-term investor and not a trader, then taking physical delivery makes a lot of sense, and is also in your best interest. Barclay's is a big company and they're supposed to have enough physical gold to cover 100% of their Gold ETF shares outstanding, but sometimes even big companies can go under. Enron was one of the biggest market makers in electricity and natural gas. Who'd would've guessed it was all a sham?

[WaysideNook]

I like to hold my pm's. I trust other people enough by using FRN's on a daily basis. Maybe I am a luddite, but e-money, e-gold, e-silver, all sounds like e-bulls*** to me that I am just pretending to own, and hoping that others will pretend that I own enough to honor its worth. I am sure it has its advantages, but I don't want anymore imaginary money than I already have. I am going to concentrate on building up the real stuff for now.


:albertein

[Phoenix_Dollar]

The $249 accounts are for founders who want to have no transaction fees for life. Certainly its not a scam.

I understand the silver in hand concept and agree that people should have some silver and gold in hand for various reasons.

I also think it becomes problematic (especially silver) to do anything but long term storage at small levels mostly due to the weight factor. 100,000 oz = 3.5 tons. Try moving that around sometime...

Another point to make is that the silver in the PhoenixSilver accounts is owned by the client, it is redeemable anytime and it is audited or will be audited once the site is fully open to the public by its own members a couple times a year.

We aim to make a very transparent system that gives real reasons to trust the entire company, its owners and its partners doing the storage over at Northwest Territorial.

"Barclay's is a big company and they're supposed to have enough physical gold to cover 100% of their Gold ETF shares outstanding."

I do not believe that has been proven.

[Ponce Cuba]

Look people, we here are more interested in holding PM for emergency reasons than for investing.

So tell me, if TEOTWAWKI gets here (I am taking it to the limit) are you going to travel to where they are holding your E-silver? are they going to send it you by mail, truck, horse and buggy? by what?

Are they going to SEND it to you at all? once again " If you don't hold it you don't own it"

[Silverity]

I sould my storage accounts a few months back and now aim to hold silver personally.

I researched the Handy&Harman bankruptcy for my newsletter and their links with the Perth Mint and that was enough to drive me out of such schemes.

Don't get me wrong, most of the time it works, but if you are holding gold/silver for crisis purposes, the bigger the crisis, the less likely you are to get your metal back!

[Chaps]

. . . storage over at Northwest Territorial Mint? You're not serious are you . . . ?

[Silverity]

When the fiat/peak-oil/boomer crisis unfolds, I wouldn't want to be near any of these schemes.

[Phoenix_Dollar]

What is wrong with Northwest Territorial?

[Silverity]

I haven't personally looked at Northwest Territorial.

All I am saying is that when (not if) the fiat systemic crisis hits, a lot more thieves are going to come out of the woodwork looking for something to make up for their losses. It is guaranteed, and when the government starts looking around for real wealth to shore up their dying fiat currencies, they'll be looking to replace the known big repositories with government IOUs (aka bonds) first!

If you can time that sequence and get out in time, that's fine. I personally do not feel so confident.

[Phoenix_Dollar]

I was interested in why Chaps said that about them. I wonder if he is aware of something of interest or just making quick remarks and has not ever done business with NWTM.

The governmnet has no history of looting silver, yes they do with gold, but never silver unless you count the brettonwoods deal and debasement, but that is a sneakier less obvious way to do it than directly looting vaults would be so i am a bit confused about what you mean by the timing of things.

Some people think the USD will have a soft landing, but I am not so sure about that. When you deal with millions of dollars of silver its not something you could just put in your house. That would not be all that safe and puts your life at risk.

I personally feel a strategy that we call Jurisdictional Abritrage makes sense at some level. This means that you break your holding up into 10 or more pieces and store it literally in 10 or more locations/jurisdictions many of them being in locations outside of the usa. This raises all sorts of issues, becuase there is almost nowhere to store metal outside of the world banking system. I can count them on one hand inside the us and outside the US on the other hand. It also raises issues of safe shipping, customs problems and disclosure that most people are not aware of.

I say its safe to maybe carry 50k worth in a single home location and the risk is proportional to how much you can handle storing size wise and how much risk you are willing to assume. I am speaking of silver. Gold you could easily store a million without too much issues of weight and bulk.

If the **** hits the fan having a large qauntity of silver layed up in your house means you won't be mobile in any way that allows you to move freely to avoid danger etc.

Gordon

[Ponce Cuba]

By Dollar = "The governmnet has no history of looting silver"

My answer = To a hungry dog even a bare bone looks good.....Ponce

[Chaps]

All I can say is do your due diligence. A great mint facility but very spotty customer service IMO. I waited for close to two months for silver bags that were quoted as being in stock and ready for immed shipment to me. My check cleared in three days. Would I participate in a program that used them as a depository? Never.

[Someone_else]

I waited for close to two months for silver bags that were quoted as being in stock and ready for immed shipment to me. My check cleared in three days.
That seemed to be a common occurance with NWTM in one of the other threads I read, probably this one:
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=7228

And to think that I was annoyed with CNI... On their web site, they claim "The fastest way to receive your order is by bank wire. This form of payment insures same day shipment ...", and while my wire transfer happened on a Monday, they did not ship until Wednesday. Everything arrived fine, just a little late, and I would recommend CNI to others (with that caveat).

But waiting TWO MONTHS (as with NWTM)?! I would be on their doorstep with the local sheriff to collect my order! :mad:

[lhslancers]

I have bought from both CNI and Northwest and except for slight problems with a delivery from Northwest the experiences weren't bad. I strongly suggest buying from a local dealer with cash.

[Phoenix_Dollar]

I have never had a problem with them except for one of their bullion dealers was rude to me once over a pricing dispute in a way that made me uncomfortable about our future with them, but thats a non issue in the bigger scope of things for the time being.

I think it helps to deal with them via an account representative that is designated to you rather than just in a generic way. This way you get specific data about shipping times and such. I have never had a problem with our rep, their billing department and the owner himself.

Let me ask you this:

If you had 10 million dollars worth of silver at your house right now, how would you store it so that it could never be stolen, confiscated or generally messed with by anyone?

[Metalsmith]

This seems silly to me. If I had 10 million dollars in silver I would also have 50 million in gold. Now with 60 million I would be on some exotic beach somewhere and not here reading GIM. What would the rest of you be doing ?:yippee:

[Silverity]

Roosevelt called in silver bullion in 1934 after the gold confiscation. So, they did loot the large silver holdings and slapped a 40% tax on any profits made elsewhere.