No more revolutions/rebellions in the United States!

[The Great Ag]

The last revolution in the United States occurred in 1776 and was ratified in 1784 ending the revolutionary war.

The last rebellion occurred in 1868 with the ratification of the 14th Amendment.

There will no longer be anymore revolutions or rebellions in the United States. Why? For either to exist, the majority of people must want to change the gov't. In other nations that ARE NOT democratic, rebellions and revolutions occur on a regular basis. This happens because the dictators do not give enough benefits to their subjects, and they complain loudly enough and a new dictator promises them more benefits (changes) and the people are happy and quiet.

In the United States and other democratic nations, the people get to change their gov't on a regular basis; four years for federal elections. As the saying goes if you do not like the representative, elect him/her out, and elect the rep that will change gov't. Because the United States has this built in mechanism for change, the people will not rebel nor revolt in large enough numbers to change the gov't. Why rebel/revolt when you can vote?

I submit that the crafters of law, not our founding fathers, were very much aware of this, then and today, gave the citizens the "right to vote" so as to keep rebellions and revolutions to a minimum.

Politicians are not aware of this, but then again politicians do not control the gov't. It is those forces outside the gov't (label them how you will, but you know who I am talking about) that prefer "democratic" nations. The peoples in those type of nations are easier to control, because they "the People" believe they can change gov't through the voting box. They are content with this right, not realizing they cannot really change anything, except who keeps the chair warm.

For proof answer the following question: When did a rebellion/revolution occur in a democratic nation, i.e. people vote for their leader? Please exclude countries where the United States or other nation supported a rebel to overthrow the gov't.

The Great Ag

[Twisted Avatar]

Excellent synopsis Ag.......

This is only futher proves the point that I constantly allude to:THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED........THE REVOLUTION WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU LIVE!

All we have to do is reach the point of critical mass and that is FAST APPROACHING. the taxes are out of control and the medium of exchange(dollar) is crumbling before our very eyes. when the enough people wake up to this fact that they cannot provide for themselves or there loved ones Sweet Mother Mary You better have beans, bullets and bullion and boatloads of it because it is going to make 1776 look like a playground tussle between classmates.


That is why as much as I admire RP I know HE IS A MAN BEFORE HIS TIME but history will be kind to this man and I promise you in the future HE WILL BE HEAVILY QUOTED AND REFERED TO like Hamilton and Jefferson are today.


As sure as nite follows day ........and the tide ebbs and flows...... REVOLUTION IS COMING TO AMERICA!!!

Will you be ready?

T

[Tn...Andy]

I'd have to agree with you, Great Ag.....

[The Great Ag]

Excellent synopsis Ag.......

This is only futher proves the point that I constantly allude to:THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED........THE REVOLUTION WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU LIVE!

All we have to do is reach the point of critical mass and that is FAST APPROACHING.
As sure as nite follows day ........and the tide ebbs and flows...... REVOLUTION IS COMING TO AMERICA!!!

Will you be ready?

T
Hey, T:

There will be NO revolution. The masses will not reach critical mass. That was my point in the opening post. The masses believe the illusion collectively they have the ability to change gov't. They do not.

There will be no revolution. A few uprisings here or there that the gov't will smash, and rightfully so. The gov't is protecting itself, as it is supposed to do.

The gov't given right to vote is one privilege the gov't will support to the end. Any accusation of vote fraud or denial of voting and the gov't will investigate immediately and thoroughly.

Why do think during the 20th century gov't worked hard to remove ALL voter restrictions except for age? More people to agree with the program. Voting is another trap that you tacitly approve of the system. Voting is a benefit.

Sorry, TA, but the rebellion took place in 1861 and was finalized in 1868. Best take care of yourself and work on things from the outside.

The Great Ag

[Dave]

Hey, T:

There will be NO revolution. The masses will not reach critical mass.

The Great Ag,

I would have to disagree with this assertion, a "Revolution" is an act/movement not necessarily tied to success or a majority.

Here is an uncomfortable question for you, do you have a line in the sand that has already been passed and you did not act? I don't ask this without acknowledging I personally have drawn several lines in the sand and realized if I add the aggregate infringement of my liberties over the years it is significant, yet I have not acted. It is this sum total loss of liberties we need to focus on. Government has long since wised up to the notion of taking away any significant rights in any one act but rather over time so that our lines are never crossed just simply adjusted back.

I ask in general are you willing to take appropriate action to preserve your liberties?

I argue Revolution can occur with one person, though it may not be successful or significant in outcome but it can and has happened.

People are just not willing to risk their families or lives for liberty. Ironically, they risk those things more in tyranny.

One day, someone will take action and spark change. It may be peaceful or it may be violent but change will occur and liberty will be restored to those willing to take it back. I just hope it is in my time so my children can benefit from it rather than be apart of the struggle.

Dave

[BellevueBully]

Excellent synopsis Ag.......


As sure as nite follows day ........and the tide ebbs and flows...... REVOLUTION IS COMING TO AMERICA!!!

Will you be ready?

T

T

You've made his statement before and I asked you if you really believe that but you did not reply. So I guess this is a good opportunity to ask again. Do you really think Americans are anywhere near revolt?

[silverblood]

With all due respect, Dave, you are aware that you are part of the matrix, yet you decided not to do anything about it. I have made the same choices so far. Why? Perhaps because there is no evidence of the critical mass that would be required to successfully destroy the matrix. We took the red pill, but we are powerless to act because we know if we act alone, we will fail.

I think The Great Ag's point is that the sheeple do not realize they are in the matrix, but when/if they are ever presented with clear evidence of it, they will still choose to remain there rather than to break free, because they are so very comfortable already where they are. They are consumed by fear and placated by their relatively sumptuous lifestyle, and the belief that they might win the lottery after all.

Smith knows this, and you can be assured he will try to avoid presenting clear evidence to the plugged-in masses because even though they would still look to Smith for their salvation, giving up yet more liberty to assure it, Smith knows it is even better for the gelatinous mass of energy-and-wealth generating humanity to simply slumber so their productivity can be more easily harvested.

I can tell you, people will not rebel as long as the matrix remains even partially intact. They like socialism, they like law, they like the idea of voting even if they don't actually do it. Even people on this board like to vote, when in their hearts they have to know it can make no difference whatsoever. Voting won't change reality and eliminate the matrix; at most it can only slightly alter the fabric of the matrix, and that is only an illusion.

[Professur]

Actually, Silverblood, I'm 90% in agreement, 'cept for one salient point. It's not so much that the people are powerless to break the matrix, as they've been convinced they're powerless. I've seen this training before, with elephants. What you do is, when they're young, you chain them to a post. No matter how much they tug, they can't break the chain. Then, when they grow, the remain convinced that the chain is too strong and never even try to break it. One case study showed that even the chain was superfluous. All that was needed for that elephant was for the shackle to be placed on his leg.

[silverblood]

ok, agreed on that point Professur, they are not powerless, but most are convinced that they are. Yet they cling to the illusion that voting can make a difference.

I contend that even if people were aware that they were not powerless and if they acknowledged that voting is futile, they would still prefer the matrix, and would choose to take no action to liberate themselves. Slaves grow conditioned to slavery.

[The Great Ag]

T

You've made his statement before and I asked you if you really believe that but you did not reply. So I guess this is a good opportunity to ask again. Do you really think Americans are anywhere near revolt?
Sorry it took awhile to respond. I have been busy.

No, US citizens are NOWHERE near revolution, as long as they can vote. That is my point. US citizen suffer from blindness, i.e. that their vote changes gov't. They can choose their dictator, hopefully he, so far only males, is more benevolent than malevolent. That is about all they can do.

Take for example when the prez and most politicians wanted to grant amnesty (gov't amnesia) to illegal aliens. US citizens had to scream at the top of their lungs and threaten the politicians with all types of nasty things to keep this bill from passing. Okay the will of the people was heard. But gov't wants amnesty for many reasons. So they will sneak in small provisions in other bills to get what they want and the people will not know.

Who does gov't work for? It is not for me or you. The people are nearly terminally blind. I have faith that more eyes open every day.

The Great Ag

[gunner]

KBR has been busy building detention facilities all over the country for anyone that might challenge the power structure of the gov't or the decisions made by those in charge.

Label them terrists and off they go !!

[RiverRat]

:rolleyes_m: The MSM dishes out political correctness on an hourly basis to condition the masses for perpetual political/corporate servitude.

The sheep remain in perfect formation as ordered because stepping out of line brings down the wrath of concentrated group peer pressure.The local Gestapo are now out of the closet and patrolling the streets just looking for strays to terrorize and break the boredom.

Illusion or fact at this point is of no significance.The Matrix is safe.
Individual perception of the truth is crushed at every opportunity...conform or suffer dire consequences.

Democracy is an illusion in America and political science taught by academic drones insures the next generation is dumber than the one before.
Elections and honest voting are easily circumvented to sustain the illusion of change...bread and circuses are about all the sheep can handle...the capacity for rational thought eradicated by design and billions spent yearly on sub par education to turn the masses into rabid,robotic consumers.

Yep...that should about cover it.
Mix in some artificial religious fail safes and you end up with millions of lab rats of extremely low intelligence.

A revolution ?
In your dreams...

:rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m:

[Silver Shadow]

I am not so sure.

When the economy is busted, the standard of living plummets, and the Government cannot fix it, people will start to become restless.

When the next President is hugely unpopular right from the very start, and there is the strong stench of another fraudulent and stolen election.

When conscription is introduced, along with higher taxation. More useless wars are started, with an ever rising tide of more dead Americans. Will parents surrender their kids for cannon fodder to die in some foreign shit hole for no purpose.

When even more government fraud and corruption becomes so obvious it is just impossible to hide.

When another highly suspicious 911 type event precedes martial law, and Americans are being shot and rounded up at gun point and interred in FEMA prison camps without trial or legal recourse. When torture is openly used on ordinary Americans, and justice ceases to exist.

Do you really believe Americans will just shrug, and put up with it all ?

[The Great Ag]

I am not so sure.

When the economy is busted, the standard of living plummets, and the Government cannot fix it, people will start to become restless.

When the next President is hugely unpopular right from the very start, and there is the strong stench of another fraudulent and stolen election.

When conscription is introduced, along with higher taxation. More useless wars are started, with an ever rising tide of more dead Americans. Will parents surrender their kids for cannon fodder to die in some foreign shit hole for no purpose.

When even more government fraud and corruption becomes so obvious it is just impossible to hide.

When another highly suspicious 911 type event precedes martial law, and Americans are being shot and rounded up at gun point and interred in FEMA prison camps without trial or legal recourse. When torture is openly used on ordinary Americans, and justice ceases to exist.

Do you really believe Americans will just shrug, and put up with it all ?
No, they will vote somebody else in office. Look at Zimbabwe, the people are not screaming and revolting. They are trying to survive!

US citizens may march, protest and complain. The gov't does not mind this, even if the protest is in the millions, e.g. million man march on DC. Two days later the marchers left, and spent a lot of FRNs in the DC area. Gov't did not mind at all, as this also shows for all to see, the gov't is benevolent. Most protests rarely make the news, unless it is large, and then only for a short time.

What are you suggesting an armed revolution? If so, let us look at numbers. 10 armed militia attempting to get the masses uprising. This is barely a ruby ridge event. Maybe some bad publicity, but on the whole MSM treated ruby ridge as a quack event. Suppose you have 100 armed militia. This is akin to Waco. MSM showed those inside the compound to be "wackos." The people did not mind gov't intervention. Let us say you have 1000 armed militia trying to get the people uprising. This is a significant number! The gov't will smack them down quickly and violently. That is the gov'ts job. The people will actually want this, as a large "terrorist" force will upset their tranquility.

You have to remember the people have been conditioned to accept the reality given, just like the movie The Matrix. The people will help gov't maintain that reality at all costs, i.e. The war on terror.

But it was only 2.5 years ago that I was part of the people. Each day that I and others write about the legal reality, the more people that will understand and act accordingly.

There will not be a revolution in the streets, no matter how difficult life is for the people. They will vote for the candidate who can promise them the most.

Lastly, you have used the term "Americans" frequently. This term has meaning ONLY in the vernacular, and no where else. The gov't DOES NOT legally define the term "American." Therefore it has no legal meaning. Look at every form you have signed with the gov't that requires nationality, you will see the term "US citizen." This is the legal definition of nationality. Which is why I always use the term US citizen when referring to nationality. I am trying to educate people concerning the legal reality.

A US citizen owes his/her allegiance to a federal corporation, known as the "United States." Where does the "United States" corporate office exist? DC, right? Read the US CONstitution and you will see CONgress has the power :
17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) - This is the District of Columbia - as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And,
As a citizen to the United States, the citizen is subject to the whims of CONgress, and technically cannot claim any protections under the bill of rights, as the US CONstitution affords a US citizen no protection. Does this make sense? If so, you can see why our rights are always trampled upon. The US citizen does not have rights, but gov't given privileges. Try and get a judge to admit this! They will not, but will take proper notice.

You see, Silvershadow, the average US citizen has no clue to what is going on because he/she does not understand nationality. If they did, things would change very quickly. So be it, I am on the slow path, that is fine. MOre people are awakening every day. It took the gov't 212 years to get the people this conditioned. It will take awhile to get them unconditioned.

The Great Ag

[jaybone]

Economic collapse + new war(s) + draft + confiscatory taxes + martial law = revolucion.
People will put up with things until they don't; as conditions deteriorate, people will lose faith, as things get worse loss of faith will turn to anger.

[luft97]

Economic collapse + new war(s) + draft + confiscatory taxes + martial law = revolucion.
People will put up with things until they don't; as conditions deteriorate, people will lose faith, as things get worse loss of faith will turn to anger.

Maybe so, but I think the problem is that by the time anyone gets around to taking action the government will have all of the extra surveillance, concentration camps, urban combat troops, etc.. etc.. so you would be fighting a losing battle. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0058.gif

[BellevueBully]

Sorry it took awhile to respond. I have been busy.

No, US citizens are NOWHERE near revolution, as long as they can vote. That is my point. US citizen suffer from blindness, i.e. that their vote changes gov't. They can choose their dictator, hopefully he, so far only males, is more benevolent than malevolent. That is about all they can do.

Take for example when the prez and most politicians wanted to grant amnesty (gov't amnesia) to illegal aliens. US citizens had to scream at the top of their lungs and threaten the politicians with all types of nasty things to keep this bill from passing. Okay the will of the people was heard. But gov't wants amnesty for many reasons. So they will sneak in small provisions in other bills to get what they want and the people will not know.

Who does gov't work for? It is not for me or you. The people are nearly terminally blind. I have faith that more eyes open every day.

The Great Ag

Thank you for the response. Actually, the comment was directed to Twisted Avatar. I happen to agree fully with you. TA has made this comment several times and I am trying to determine from him if he knows something that I don't because I see no evidence of revolt either. Just the opposite actually. I have asked TA to respond to this inquiry 3 times on 3 different threads but he has not as of yet. Possibly has not read posts or does not want to address.

cheers

[The Great Ag]

Economic collapse + new war(s) + draft + confiscatory taxes + martial law = revolucion.
People will put up with things until they don't; as conditions deteriorate, people will lose faith, as things get worse loss of faith will turn to anger.
Hey, Jaybone:

I disagree. For example, look at Zimbabwe:
Isidore says what this means is poor families can't afford ten or 20 kilogram packs and cannot stock anything in the house. Isidore says the rising cost of food is also affecting non-resident students at tertiary institutions. He explains he has friends who survive on a cooked mealie cob a day.

School children are not spared either. 11-year-old Samantha Madyira has only one uniform, which she washes when she returns home from school. Her dress has already lost its color and is fraying at the seams. Her mother, Dadirai, is a cleaner employed by the city council. She bought the dress for 25 million dollars in January. But as the same dress now costs almost 200 million Zimbabwe dollars, she won't be able to buy her daughter the second dress (as promised) any time soon.

With a despondent look on her face, Dadirai says she hopes the coming election will bring some magic remedy that will halt the rising prices.
What is going there is pretty bad, but no riots. Perhaps that is due to the fact people are working to survive?

The Great Ag

[Caligula]

I submit that the crafters of law, not our founding fathers, were very much aware of this, then and today, gave the citizens the "right to vote" so as to keep rebellions and revolutions to a minimum.


Yeah, don't begrudge the Founding Fathers, the hijack of this nation happend the generations following them......

"Every generation needs a new revolution."
~Thomas Jefferson

[Old_Nickel]

The last revolution in the United States occurred in 1776 and was ratified in 1784 ending the revolutionary war.

The last rebellion occurred in 1868 with the ratification of the 14th Amendment.

There will no longer be anymore revolutions or rebellions in the United States.

You're forgetting all the union violence at the turn of the century. You're also forgetting all the stuff in the late 60s.

The reason there will be no rebellions is because young people today are distracted by mass media and educated by a horrible, "politically correct" school system.

[The Great Ag]

You're forgetting all the union violence at the turn of the century. You're also forgetting all the stuff in the late 60s.

The reason there will be no rebellions is because young people today are distracted by mass media and educated by a horrible, "politically correct" school system.
As you wrote those were periods of violence, but they did not qualify as rebellions or revolutions. They may have been anti-government, but those actions did not lead the "people" to demand a change of government. It was not a rebellion or revolution.

The Great Ag

[Old_Nickel]

As you wrote those were periods of violence, but they did not qualify as rebellions or revolutions. They may have been anti-government, but those actions did not lead the "people" to demand a change of government. It was not a rebellion or revolution.

The Great Ag

The government certainly did change ITSELF, though. The union violence brought about FDR's socialist-style policies, since socialism was a growing "problem" for the capitalist elites. Same as the protests during the Vietnam War - the war ended.

[rodin]

Any accusation of vote fraud or denial of voting and the gov't will investigate immediately and thoroughly.


What have U been smokin' The Great Ag? :smokin:

[Buchan]

The last revolution in the United States occurred in 1776 and was ratified in 1784 ending the revolutionary war.

The last rebellion occurred in 1868 with the ratification of the 14th Amendment.

There will no longer be anymore revolutions or rebellions in the United States. Why? For either to exist, the majority of people must want to change the gov't. In other nations that ARE NOT democratic, rebellions and revolutions occur on a regular basis. This happens because the dictators do not give enough benefits to their subjects, and they complain loudly enough and a new dictator promises them more benefits (changes) and the people are happy and quiet.

In the United States and other democratic nations, the people get to change their gov't on a regular basis; four years for federal elections. As the saying goes if you do not like the representative, elect him/her out, and elect the rep that will change gov't. Because the United States has this built in mechanism for change, the people will not rebel nor revolt in large enough numbers to change the gov't. Why rebel/revolt when you can vote?

I submit that the crafters of law, not our founding fathers, were very much aware of this, then and today, gave the citizens the "right to vote" so as to keep rebellions and revolutions to a minimum.

Politicians are not aware of this, but then again politicians do not control the gov't. It is those forces outside the gov't (label them how you will, but you know who I am talking about) that prefer "democratic" nations. The peoples in those type of nations are easier to control, because they "the People" believe they can change gov't through the voting box. They are content with this right, not realizing they cannot really change anything, except who keeps the chair warm.

For proof answer the following question: When did a rebellion/revolution occur in a democratic nation, i.e. people vote for their leader? Please exclude countries where the United States or other nation supported a rebel to overthrow the gov't.

The Great Ag

An interesting post, though I have a couple of problems with it. The first is just a question of semantics regarding "rebellion" and "revolution," for they are not synonymous terms. A rebellion is an uprising that is in progress or that fails, while a revolution is an uprising that succeeds. There are many rebellions going on in the world (e.g. Tibet), but they are not properly called revolutions until the anti-government uprising succeeds. Thus you have the American Revolution, which succeeded, and the Whiskey Rebellion, which failed. The Whiskey Rebellion, by the way, is an example of a rebellion in a democratic state (the US). Another one is the rebellion that took place in Canada in 1837, though perhaps Canada cannot be considered to be democratic at that time.

I also question your analysis of what sets off rebellions and revolutions. Often revolutions are triggered by the improvement of living conditions in the affected country; when a country is under tight and brutal repression, people may not like the conditions, but they can't do anything about it, e.g. Stalinist Russia. It is only when the regime relaxes and the expectations of the people begin to rise that the threat of revolution becomes dangerous. This has occurred many times in recent history -- the French Revolution, the rebellions of 1848 in Europe, the 1989 revolutions in eastern Europe, the fall of the USSR, etc. I would even argue that the Russian Revolution fits this model, for it was such things as food shortages and war fatigue, plus a weak czar, that led to the rebellions; Russians had come to expect such things as ample food supplies by the early 1900s, whereas in previous centuries I doubt that Russian peasants seriously expected the government to feed them.

Among democratic states that have experienced revolutions and rebellions, the most prominent is France. Charles De Gaulle was almost overthrown in the student rebellions of 1968, and he came to power in 1958 as a result of the revolt of French settlers in Algeria; they rebelled against him also in 1960. In 1918 Germany had a revolution that deposed the monarchy; I know you said that you mean only countries that have an elected leader, but Germany had an elected parliament, so I consider Germany to have been a democracy at that time. I don't know if you consider coups to be a form of rebellion, but Greece has had several, and Turkey had one most recently in 1980. Both Greece and Turkey are considered to be democracies as well.

Finally, I disagree with your view that you need a majority of people in a country to carry out a revolution/rebellion. My understanding is that most revolutions in history have been carried out by relatively small groups of people. The American Revolution was not a mass movement, in the sense of large numbers of people spontaneously rising up to expel the British. It succeeded because most colonists were relatively apathetic, especially the Loyalists, who assumed that they needed only to wait for the British army to crush the rebels. Likewise, the French Revolution in its initial stages was restricted largely to Paris, and the revolutions in Germany and Russia centered in just a few major cities. By contrast, however, the 1989 revolutions do appear to have involved mass movements, e.g. the huge demonstrations in Leipzig and cities like Timasoara and Bucharest in Romania.

I think you're right about the effect of "democracy" on ordinary people when they face difficult times. It does indeed tend to act as a drug that saps the will of people to take action to change the situation. You see it all the time with people who dislike Bush, who are counting the days until he leaves office. The assumption they make is that someone else chosen by the "democratic" process will make a difference, and thus any action on their part is unnecessary.

[Dave]

Dadgummit!

I hate when I overlook a thread that is literally weeks old!

Silverblood,

I don't disagree with your points, if fact I think we agree more than we disagree. The point I was trying to make is Revolutions doesn't have to come from a majority consensus. The human spirit is a very unpredictable which means Revolution will probably spark from the least likely of places.

I fully admit to the fact, quite shamefully, that I am knowingly participating in the matrix. You can't force a change, it just happens naturally. One day you will be watching your favorite matrix created TV show and the next you will be fighting a Revolution; I honestly think it will probably happen like that.

I don't know what the catalyst will be nor do I pretend to know how I will respond to it personally but I hope I will have the moral fiber and resolve to fight the good fight.

Dave