why ingested colloidal silver makes no sense

[MRedecke]

on this page you may check if CS makes sense:

http://www.redecke.de/michael/silver2.htm (no ads on this page)

michael

[RossL]

on this page you may check if CS makes sense:

http://www.redecke.de/michael/silver2.htm (no ads on this page)

michael

If your theory does not hold up in experiments, then you must question the assumptions in your theory.

Since CS does have effect internally in much smaller concentrations than 42g/l, you have made an incorrect assumption somewhere in your calculations.

That being said, my observation is CS is more safe and effective used externally.

[G-khan]

on this page you may check if CS makes sense:

http://www.redecke.de/michael/silver2.htm (no ads on this page)

michael

I would like to see your data or point to some cases where colliodal silver has.. caused any ill effects... I only can find where Silver Nitrates or other compounds of Silver has ever had any ill effects - turned you blue.. Silver Colliodal when ingested is not absorbed ....

Show me some real people that had bad effects or your so called study is a bunch of crap as far as I am concerned... By the way the only way a person will get enough CS is if they own a generator.. You need to ingest at least 4 oz a day of 15 ppm to get any type of theraputic effect - and you may need 12 or more ounces depending on what you have going on.

Show me some real life cases and not ones that were using silver compounds other than CS or I will dismiss this as more hogwash...

I can find many cases af ill effects from using many prescribed antbiotics that have resulted in death - just show me one from CS should be an easy task millions use CShttp://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/bandito.gif

[MRedecke]

Hello RossL !

I do not know about what theory you are talking. I mentioned myself no theory at all, i was just citing the results of research made in the past and published in peer-reviewed articles of scientific journals, found via medline-search and reading further non-biased publications. For every statement I may show the references to you. Most of the articles I have here on my desktop are listed here:

http://www.redecke.de/michael/silverreferences.htm

some papers that came in later will be added.

You wrote:

quote
...Since CS does have effect internally in much smaller concentrations than 42g/l...
end quoting

Can you tell me your info-source for that assertion, and how should that be possible ? i have no doubt that the external use of colloidal silver has benefits, and there are studies showing this. Methods using silver to keep drinking water potable over month are also known to be effective and safe so far.

michael

[917601]

Modern day studies-hogwash.Especially by the FDA,whose interestes belong to drug companies.Some interesting facts-term "blue blood"-royalty who ate off of silver plates and spoons,very few died from the bubonic plagues of the 1600s.Settlers placing silver coins in their water barrels extending the life of water supplies.Primitive Chinese living in the backwoods still cooking food out of silver pots and pans,no need for doctors hundred miles away.Two tablespoons of 12 PPM colloidal silver in my stored water has kept it clean going on 3 years now(I know-I popped the top and took a big swallow).List goes on.AND all of these benefits from silver that has not been put in colloidal solution or anything even close to microscopic sized particles.Facts are our scientists still can not explain precisely how silver works in killing virus,bacteria and fungus.They have no clue,just theories.Well,my theory is it is God's gift to those that use it as such.I still laugh my hiney off :haha: everytime modern man thinks they have a scientific explanation for everything.Less than 200 hundred years ago our "doctors" bleed people to death.And two hundred years from now our scientists will still not be able to explain exactly how silver works.Mankind is not becoming wiser,just more ignorant and proud.

[RossL]

Can you tell me your info-source for that assertion, and how should that be possible ?

My info source: I make my own CS and use it. Have you tried it? A field trial to back your research would be nice.

Something is wrong with the assumptions in your research. Following is a quote from your research:

"These absorbed 2 µg will be distributed in our body waters (42 litres) and will produce there an increase of existing silver concentration of 2 µg/42 litres = 0,048 ppb = 0,000048 ppm. This very low added concentration can not be effective because our daily intake of silver coming from food and drinking water is more than 2 times higher."

Perhaps you should TEST this assumption since all of the following conclusions you make are based on it. Why do you assume that the silver will disperse equally throughout the entire soluable body mass?

[Uncle]

Can you tell me your info-source for that assertion, and how should that be possible ?
michael

Perhaps you should first find out how "we" GIM people use it before you come here and make some will-arse-about-face statements.

42g/l - What, do you chew silver rounds ? :withstupi

The info for my source is personal oral ingestion of 14ppm at 1-2 ounces a day (30-60ml) for the past 24 months. Homebrew.

Uncle

[MRedecke]

Hello G-khan !

Here i am talking about the difficulties to explain an eventual effectiveness of ingested colloidal silver. And furthermore I could not find non-biased evidence so far for such an effect. You are talking now about argyria and you asked me about evidence(s) about the known relationship CS-argyria.
Recent cases from USA:

California 2005: a 38 years old man got argyria after 10 month use of homemade colloidal silver: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/111/case_reports/argyria/wadhera.html

Texas in 2005: 58 years old man became argyric after a 4 day use of homemade colloidal silver. First signs came up after 4 weeks, full generalized argyria after 5 month. He used destilled water, pure silver coins and an electric device to produce colloidal silver: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16021155&query_hl=3
Sorry, this full text article costs 30 $ (US) at Elsevier. I had to buy it.

Montana/USA: Stan Jones a libertarian, argyric after using homemade colloidal silver: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2297471.stm (..it turned me blue...)

Las Vegas: I have the article here concerning two men who became argyric after using CS in Las Vegas.

In the US an amalgam-tattoo (gum-argyrosis) can be seen in about 0.4-0.9% of the population, see scientist Buchner in 2004.

Pharmacokinetics show how poorly ingested silver is adsorbed, values found in scientific articles are between 5% and 18%, usually 10% is used in studies.

Citation: ...I can find many cases af ill effects from using many prescribed antbiotics that have resulted in death - just show me one from CS should be an easy task millions use CS...
End of citation.

You are right in part. Many people s bacteria become resistant against many antibiotics, and some antibiotics may have severe side-effects and caused the death of many people in the past. But using or prescribing antibiotics you must always consider the balance between benefit and „ill effects“ and other effects (costs). Antibiotics have saved many lives in the past and showed clearly to be effective if used properly (poor people often stop an antibiotics therapy too early if they see that they feel better. They also want to save money. This behaviour is one of the reasons why tuberculosis is increasing in some countries in which people must pay the drugs themthelves). if the balance moves clearly in the benefit range you may consider such a therapy, otherwise not.
In the case of ingested CS a benefit has never been shown, so any balance remains blocked in a „non-benefit“ position because of the possible side effects and costs. I do not speak about retrospective case-studies. They have no value and must be considered as „anecdotes“ because they are always seen in a selective way, but they may be helpful as indicators for future serious research. The only correct way would be some series of double-blinded prospective trials made by non-biased people. Discarding any placebo effect or Rosenthal effect and starting from a null-hypothesis. The entire dietary-supplements industry is in fact a big business and wealthy enough to finance such trials. Why dont they work together dividing the costs ?

Hello skyvike ! i fly Piper 18 and some Robin here. Our small airfield EDXK seen during landing:
http://www.sportfluggruppe.de/fliegen.htm

917601 !

Your nice story concerning silver and the bubonic plague is an known urban-legend. The term „blue blood“ comes in fact from spanish „sangre azul“ and is related to the pale-white coloured skin of aristocratic people who did not work at that time (or only inside), in a country (spain) in which working people were (and usually farmer and fisher are still) brown-coloured because of sun radiation. The bluish veins can been seen much better in these cases. If eating off silver plates and using silvered spoons would start argyria, this desease should be much more common today and these plates would be simply forbidden. After discovering the dangers from copper cooking-pots in austria and india, and their use was disadvised, the cases of deadly cyrrosis in children decreased immediately.

Citation:
...I still laugh my hiney off everytime modern man thinks they have a scientific explanation for everything....
end citation

laughing is very healthful, and laughing people have a longer life-expectancy. But i must say that people alleging to „know everything“ are simply stupid. Perhaps you refer to science of 200 or 150 years ago. Today science tell us „only“ the precision of their statements, nothing more but also nothing less.

To RossL !
I cite:
Something is wrong with the assumptions in your research. Following is a quote from your research:

"These absorbed 2 µg will be distributed in our body waters (42 litres) and will produce there an increase of existing silver concentration of 2 µg/42 litres = 0,048 ppb = 0,000048 ppm. This very low added concentration can not be effective because our daily intake of silver coming from food and drinking water is more than 2 times higher."

Perhaps yopu should TEST this assumption since all of the following conclusions you make are based on it. Why do you assume that the silver will disperse equally throughout the entire soluable body mass?
Stop citing

I did not test anything. I am only citing scientist who did studies. I assumed that silver would disperse equally. I cannot prove it. But nobody can tell us that this allegation is not true. Ockham told us 800 years ago to believe first in the „nearest“ answers to a question. Silver accumulates partly in fact in skin and some other organs. This leads to an even lower concentration in all other parts of our body, it „inflates“ the calculated distribution volume and makes any effect less probable, except the spots in which it concentrates. Why should an infected organ (as presumed target) be such a spot in which it concentrates ? it would be a coincidence. Blood – levels would be lower again.

michael

[917601]

Mredecke-Thanks for the blue blood fact and good detective work on overconsumption of silver.I am not sure still on what your thoughts are on silver as a biocide but as it is used more often today for water treatment,wound healing,water purification,medicinal... I believe the peoples of yesteryear were on to something;something our modern doctors should be employing more often(at least full blown research) as a replacement for anti-biotics.Over-prescribed anti-biotics were responsible for many of russia's populace to loss their teeth prematurely and damaged livers at an early age.I would be willing to state anti-biotics have damaged more peoples health than colloidal silver.Incidently,the russian doctors I speak to now know the dangers of their ways in the early 70s(heavy anti-biotic usage)-which by the way sparked a colloidal silver usage in Russia.I still maintain our "modern medicine-man" technology will be laughed at in another 50 years :haha: :bye:

[Ponce Cuba]

FUN WITH PONCE........ about three weeks ago I took a one day trip to Miami and on my way back I almost got arrested as a suspected "terrorist".....who me?

Security saw my three 9 volts attached batteries and my two six inch silver rods that I always carry with me and they didn't know what to make of it, after forty five minutes the finally were able to talk to someone who knew what the heck I was talking about and they let me go.

I still don't understand what kind a danger three nine volts and two silver rods represents to this nation. :love:

[G-khan]

FUN WITH PONCE........ about three weeks ago I took a one day trip to Miami and on my way back I almost got arrested as a suspected "terrorist".....who me?

Security saw my three 9 volts attached batteries and my two six inch silver rods that I always carry with me and they didn't know what to make of it, after forty five minutes the finally were able to talk to someone who knew what the heck I was talking about and they let me go.

I still don't understand what kind a danger three nine volts and two silver rods represents to this nation. :love:

The danger is it will ruin the profits of all the Pharmacutical Companies!

Why buy anti biotics that you know you can have a bad reaction from and maybe die, when you can make it like I do for 75 cents a gallon and at worst you may turn blue...

The guy comes on GIM harping about CS but says nothing about the effects they have had from other antibiotics... At least be fair and compare them... CS is less dangerous than penicillin - stick that in your pipe and smoke it... Your not saying a word about that - wassup with that?http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/rock.gif

Its a threat to those that control the drugs.. whos gonna go out and spend 50 to 200 bucks when you can make it yourself for 75 cents.. Thats a threat... so watch it bub and don't let me see you with those silver rods no more......http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/haha.gifhttp://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/haha.gifhttp://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/haha.gifhttp://www.goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/haha.gif

[bigjon]

http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria-cases.html

Stan Jones is a libertarian.

Stan Jones is the most famous argyria case resulting from colloidal silver made by adding salt or saline to the production process. This method of production results in a highly concentrated silver product, with large agglomerated silver particles and an abundance of silver chloride. The second confirmed case is quite remarkable, and we urge interested readers to view our Argyria Cured (http://www.silvermedicine.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13) thread for futher information. Both of these two confirmed cases were the result of drinking large amounts of silver-salt produced colloidal silver over a long period of time ( 8 ounces + daily ).

Try this link
http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria.html

[RealityCheck]

I don't know, but this argyria has me a bit put off about colloidal silver. It seems that the theory of only silver salts causing it were just urban legend. Two or three anecdotal cases of cured argyria is not enough to make me comfortable. I personally would be careful taking this stuff everyday for no reason, and instead only use it when either ill or use it externally. It would be an absolute nightmare to have this happen and not have a gaurenteed cure.


:eek: :confused:

[Uncle]

Lots of other info as well with reference. Use the menu on the left.

Politics of Silver and An open letter to Rosemary Jacobs (halfway down the page)

http://www.silvergenesis.com/factsfraud.htm


http://www.silvergenesis.com/miracle5.htm

Argyria rebuttal

The term Argyria describes the condition of a bluish-gray colour of the skin, and Argyosis the bluing of the eye white, resulting from the use of SILVER COMPOUNDS.

To better understand the misconception regarding Argyria, I will quote from the book "The Micro Silver Bullet"(tm) by Dr. M. Paul Farber 1996 page XII (ISBN 1-887742-00-X) In reference to a "Journal of American Medical Association" article, October 18 1995, volume 274 # 15, where cases of Argyria were cited to have been caused by silver compounds (not colloidal silver, but silver mixed with other metals), note: more at link above



Here is an interesting letter to the FDA requesting information on the harmful effects of Colloidal Silver. The FDA's response was that they could not locate any cases responsive to the request.

http://www.colloidalsilvergens.com/colloidal_silver_safety_information.htm

Golden Regards
Uncle

[bigjon]

I don't know, but this argyria has me a bit put off about colloidal silver. It seems that the theory of only silver salts causing it were just urban legend. Two or three anecdotal cases of cured argyria is not enough to make me comfortable. I personally would be careful taking this stuff everyday for no reason, and instead only use it when either ill or use it externally. It would be an absolute nightmare to have this happen and not have a gaurenteed cure.


:eek: :confused:

Where are you drawing this info from?

In the cases of the link that I posted it clearly states that the cases of agyria were the result of using silver salt.

[Ragnarok]

I am only just now beginning to soak up the info on CS, but it would seem to me from what I have read, that silver is very potent - I would compare it's power to that of a catalyst or enzyme - and that it does not require very much at all, especially if one is taking it, or applying it as the case may be, every day. I believe much of the problems reported arise from the tendency if humans to think thoughts such as "well, if this much has this much effect then twice as much will be better", or "if I combine (this other substance) with it, it will work better", or "if I modify the process it can only be an improvement".

Ragnarok

[LOVEgoesMLM]

So if we have a sore throaght we should gargle it?

Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't.

Taste better then salt water that is for sure.

[melbo]

^^^^^^^^^ SPAM ALERT ^^^^^^^^

THis guys forum is Everything that is wrong with the internet:

Nice try melbo.

No SPAM.

[LOVEgoesMLM]

I am only just now beginning to soak up the info on CS, but it would seem to me from what I have read, that silver is very potent - I would compare it's power to that of a catalyst or enzyme - and that it does not require very much at all, especially if one is taking it, or applying it as the case may be, every day. I believe much of the problems reported arise from the tendency if humans to think thoughts such as "well, if this much has this much effect then twice as much will be better", or "if I combine (this other substance) with it, it will work better", or "if I modify the process it can only be an improvement".

Ragnarok

Even heard of a woman doing herself in with water. Don't know if the story is true or not. But suposidly she wanted to detox and she put a garden hose up to her self and bursted her stomache. Even if the story is true to much water is not good. Although water is the largest defency in the USA as many of us run around and forget to drink enough.

[Elijah]

Me and my family have been using colloidal silver for 20-25 years. We got tired of buying it at the health food store, (expensive), and I sent off for a battery generator to make our own. When I replaced the batteries I noticed how easy it would be to make my own generator, which I did. In fact I made several for other family and friends who wanted to make their own.

I use 4 - 9 volt batteries for mine as it works a little faster than the 3 - 9 volt kind. :rolleyes: I haven't turned blue yet! :wink: We only use it for things that are wrong and not all the time. Things like colds, sore throat, skin problems, canker sores as well as the other viruses that go around.

I'm no scientist, or doctor, but you can't argue with results.

[MoonChakka]

....Settlers placing silver coins in their water barrels extending the life of water supplies.Primitive Chinese living in the backwoods still cooking food out of silver pots and pans,no need for doctors hundred miles away.Two tablespoons of 12 PPM colloidal silver in my stored water has kept it clean going on 3 years now(I know-I popped the top and took a big swallow).List goes on....

This is why, as I said a while back, I always throw a handful of beat up silver American Eagles into the tub with me whenever I take a bath. I throw them in when I bathe my kids as well. People laugh at me, but I don't care.
:aetsch:

[Jasper]

Ingested Colloidal Silver makes plenty of sense -- to those who have some sense of their own to begin with.

It begins with ignoring the 'eggsperts' and paid shills and trying it out for yourself. You'll quickly find out what it can and cannot do. For starters, it strengthens the immune system.

:ciao: