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Andy9999
10-31-2005, 09:00 PM
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/bogus-silver.html

I'm very interested in colloidal silver, bought one yesterday and consumed some, but a little reading and my old chemistry lessons keep me a little leery<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Bogus Scientific Claims Made for Ionic Silver Products
The primary thrust of bogus scientific claims made for ionic silver products generally involve statements to the effect that silver ions (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion) are the same as silver particles (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.particles), or that ions are particles. Because the products being promoted consist mainly of ionic silver, not silver particles, the promoters try to blur the distinction between these two entirely different entities. Silver particles have the property of particle surface area (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#particle.surface.area) and ions do not since they are dissolved silver. Colloid effectiveness is determined by particle surface area making it the single most important property of a silver colloid. For more on this issue, see Particle Surface Area and Effectiveness. (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/effectiveness.htm) Ionic silver products have very low values of particle surface area.
The human body contains an abundance of chloride ions, both in the digestive tract and the blood serum. Silver ions introduced into the body will combine with the available chloride ions to form silver chloride an insoluble salt. Silver particles do not combine with the available chloride in the body and remain in the form of silver nanoparticles to circulate in the bloodstream until they are eliminated within a few days time.

<TABLE height=65 width="94%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>The difference between silver ions and silver particles boils down to the fact that silver ions combine with chloride ions to form silver chloride and silver particles do not.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Below are examples from actual ads for ionic silver products. Notice how these ads attempt to convey the notion that silver ions are the same as silver particles.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an article titled "What Exactly is Ultra Pure Colloidal Silver" by Marvin Robey.
... what is this "silver ion"? Well, it's really more commonly known as "colloidal silver". Simply put, it is extremely minute-sized silver particles suspended in water, with a positive electrical charge.
Here the writer is claiming that "colloidal silver" consists of silver ions. This writer is either confused or trying to confuse the reader with the notion that a silver ion is a particle of silver. It is common for producers of ionic silver solutions to interchangeably use the terms silver particles and ions in an attempt to blur the distinction between these two entirely different entities. Ions and particles are dramatically different entities and the terms are not interchangeable.
Silver ions are not particles of metallic silver. Silver particles consist of two or more silver atoms clustered together. Silver particles have the physical properties of metallic silver. Silver ions do not have the physical properties of metallic silver. A silver ion is a single atom of silver that is missing one orbital electron. Since it is the outermost orbital electrons of atoms that determine the physical properties of matter, the missing electron causes dramatic changes in the physical properties. For example, metallic silver is not water soluble (does not dissolve in water) but a silver ion is water soluble and cannot exist without the water or some other solvent being present. Because the physical properties of silver particles and silver ions are so dramatically different the terms cannot be used interchangeably.
When discussing metal colloids such as colloidal silver, the term colloid means silver particles in suspension not silver ions in solution.
The best colloidal silver is produced at the molecular level.
Here the writer is attempting to sound scientific but is actually describing something that scientifically does not exist. Silver is an element; the smallest form of elemental matter is the atom. A molecule is a term used to describe the smallest form of a compound, not an element. A compound is formed by combining two or more elements. There are no silver molecules, only silver atoms. For example, silver chloride is a compound. One molecule of silver chloride is formed when a single silver ion combines with a single chloride ion.
Minute, molecular sized particles are drawn off of the positive electrode, having a positive electrical charge.
Here the writer would have us believe that silver particles have a positive charge, again he is confusing ions and particles. Ions have a positive charge called ionic charge owing to the fact that one electron is missing from the outer shell. Since an electron has a negative charge, when one electron is removed the resulting ion is left with positive ionic charge. Silver particles do not have a positive charge. Silver particles in a low ionic environment develop a negative charge called zeta potential which causes the particles to behave as though they possess a negative charge.
This electrical charge is of primary importance to healing and anti-bacterial qualities.
More bogus science. The positive ionic charge of the silver ions does not survive inside the human body. In fact silver ions cannot survive inside the human for more than a few seconds. When ingested, ionic silver is greeted by hydrochloric acid in the stomach which immediately causes the silver ions to combine with the chloride ions supplied by the hydrochloric acid. This action forms the compound silver chloride which is an insoluble silver salt. Silver chloride does not possess an ionic charge.
Silver coins were commonly dropped into a jar to prevent the spoilage of milk and other drink, and silver containers were used to prolong the freshness of foods in general.
This statement is true, but it is referring to the biocidal properties of metallic silver, not silver ions. By placing this statement immediately after a discussion of silver ions the writer is attempting to blur the distinction between metallic silver and silver ions just as he tries to use the two terms interchangeably in the statements above.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for "Ultra Pure Colloidal Silver".
Crystal clear, nothing but pure water and silver particals.
This product is produced by electrolysis and is mostly ionic silver, not silver particles. Not only do they falsely claim that their product consists of silver particles but they don't even know how to spell the word particles (misspelled word in the actual ad).

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for Sovereign Silver, an ionic silver solution labeled as "colloidal silver".
Sovereign Silver is the highest quality silver ion solution available due to its unprecedented small particle size and complete dispersion, suspended in pharmaceutical grade water.
The first statement described the product as a silver ion solution which is certainly correct, but then it claims small particle size as though this product was colloidal silver.
The statements highlighted in red below are from the Sovereign Silver website.
Made in a laboratory dedicated to colloidal silver technology.
This would lead the reader to believe that company is making colloidal silver. The product label says it is colloidal silver, but with 94.9% of the silver content in the form of ionic silver and only 5.1% of silver present as particles it is really just another ionic silver solution pretending to be colloidal silver.
Each drop yields more than 100,000,000 million particles of pure silver that possess energia.
More reference here to particles of pure silver, not a correct description of silver ions. But wait, there's more, these particles possess energia. A term not defined on the website or known to be defined anywhere else. Use of this make believe technical sounding word is called "techno-babble", a technique commonly used to impress the non-technical reader with technical sounding words.
Completely transformed elemental silver, free ions of 46-electron silver that release the maximum energy of colloidal particles.
Some half truths here, an atom of elemental silver is completely transformed into a silver ion when it loses one orbital electron, leaving 46 electrons in orbit instead of the 47 electrons found in an atom of silver. With much obfuscation, this sentence is describing ionic silver until it claims that release the maximum energy of colloidal particles. This is more techno-babble with added slight of hand trying to make a connection to colloidal particles which constitute 5.1% of the silver.
The interchangeable use of the terms ions and silver particles give the reader the false impression that this product is colloidal silver rather than an ionic silver solution. Laboratory tests (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr03/cpr_03.html) have confirmed that this product contains 94.9% ionic silver with only 5.1% of the silver content in silver particles. While the product is labeled "Colloidal Silver", it is just another ionic silver solution claiming to be colloidal silver.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an advertising brochure for Argentyn 23, an ionic silver solution labeled as "colloidal silver".
Average particle size of 8 angstroms (0.0008 microns).
This statement is claiming the particle size is 0.8 nm.
According to laboratory analysis (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr36/cpr_36.html), only 5.1% of the total silver in is this product consists of silver particles, the majority 94.9% of the silver content is in the form of silver ions. The 5.1% (0.8 ppm) silver particle content is broken down as follows: 82.9% of particles by volume are 8.23 nm (82.3 angstroms) in diameter, 12.9% of the particles by volume are 33.51 nm (335.1 angstroms) and 4.2% of the particles by volume are 104.7 nm (1047 angstroms). See the Particle Size Distribution Plot (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr36/Argentyn23-Nano-size.pdf). The smallest particles in this product are more than 10 times larger than claimed while the largest particles (4.2% by volume) are 130 times larger than claimed.
Particle surface area (thermodynamically active sites) approaching 6 square kilometers per original cubic cm of raw silver material.
Colloid particle surface area (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#particle.surface.area) is expressed in square centimeters per milliliter of colloid and is written as cm<SUP>2</SUP>/mL. Lab analysis (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr36/cpr_36.html) has determined that the particle surface area of this product is 0.355 cm<SUP>2</SUP>/mL or about on third of one square centimeter. 1 sq kilometer = 10 000 000 000 sq centimeters. Therefore the advertised value is larger than the actual value by 169,014,100,000 times. In round numbers, the value in the ad is 169 billion times greater than the actual value.
Other claims made for this product are equally as bogus as the examples shown above.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for Bio-Alternatives Colloidal Silver, an ionic silver solution labeled as "colloidal silver".
The term "colloid" merely refers to particles suspended in solution. In the case of Colloidal Silver these "particles" would be silver and the liquid would ideally be pure water. It stands to reason then that the best form of Colloidal Silver would consist of nothing more than pure water and silver particles.
The paragraph above is entirely correct leading the reader to believe that this product consists of nothing more than pure water and silver particles. The ad then attempts to convince the reader that a silver ion is really just a small silver particle in the following text:
WHY IS THERE SO MUCH DEBATE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IONIC AND PARTICULATE COLLOIDAL SILVER?
This is a prime example of the marketing hype that is spreading across the internet today. There should be no debate because the fact is that an ion IS a particle (2) (an ion is an atom with an electrical charge and an atom is the SMALLEST particle of an element).
This ad claims that an ion is a particle (ion is an atom with an electrical charge). The electrical charge is called an ionic charge (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.charge) because it is created when an electron is removed from the outermost orbit of the silver atom (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.atom). Once an electron is removed from the silver atom, the atom has become a silver ion. This is the very definition of a silver ion (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion).
The difference between silver ions and silver particles boils down to the fact that silver ions combine with chloride ions to form silver chloride and silver particles do not, silver particles are not reactive. The human body is filled with chloride ions, in fact, chloride is the most prevalent anion in the human body. In the stomach or in the bloodstream, the vast supply of chloride ions causes ionic silver to form silver chloride. A silver ion (cation) can form an ionic bond with a chlorine ion (anion) because it has the opposite ionic charge. On the other hand, a silver particle cannot form an ionic bond with a chlorine ion. More details here (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/AboutIonic.html). Remember this simple fact when reading claims that silver ions are really just small silver particles, which they are not. Laboratory analysis (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr21/cpr_21A.html) of this product has determined that it is 98.6 percent ionic silver.
The University of California at Berkeley's Glossary of Nuclear Science Terms defines an ion as "An atomic particle that is electrically charged, either negative or positive"
This reference is referring to the field of nuclear science where any atomic object whose weight is greater or equal to an electron is considered a particle. This definition of an atomic particle is not applicable to the field of solution or colloid chemistry.
We make a true colloidal silver without proteins or stabilizing agents as most researchers and experts are convinced that this is the most effective & safest form.
Here the ad falsely claims their ionic silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.silver) product is true colloidal silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#truecolloid), a term which means that the majority of the silver content is in the form of silver nanoparticles. Lab analysis (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr21/cpr_21A.html) has determined that this product contains only 1.4% of the total silver content in the form of silver nanoparticles while 98.6 percent of the silver content is ionic silver. Clearly the majority of the silver content is in the form of ions not nanoparticles which makes this product an ionic silver solution not a true silver colloid.
Our Colloidal Silver is Crystal Clear the way Colloidal Silver should be.
More false claims, only ionic silver is clear. This ad is again trying to convince the reader that an ionic silver product is colloidal silver. For more on ionic silver products, see The Truth About Ionic Silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/AboutIonic.html).


<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for ASAP, an ionic silver solution labeled as "colloidal silver".
ASAP colloidal silver products are different than other colloidal silver products on the market due to its patented manufacturing process which yields roughly 96% elemental silver particles versus a high percentage of ionic silver particles (where one or two electrons have been stripped off of the silver atom) typically found in colloidal silver products.
This ad claims that the product consists of 96% elemental silver particles. Elemental silver is a scientific term that refers to the element silver in its natural metallic state which contains 47 orbital electrons ( zero ionic charge). Laboratory tests (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr05/cpr_05.html) have determined that ASAP is an ionic silver solution which is 96.6% ionic silver and only 3.4% elemental silver particles. Because a silver ions is a silver atom that is missing one orbital electron it is not elemental silver. While the ad claims this product is 96% elemental silver it is actually 96% ionic silver making this another ionic silver solution claiming to be colloidal silver.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for Ionic Plus, an ionic silver solution produced by Indigenous Products.
Ionic Plus is a powerful, all natural antibiotic liquid mineral supplement and prophylactic with a trillion electromagnetically charged silver particles of ions compared to a billion electromagnetically charged particles in colloidal silver.
"...charged silver particles of ions..." While the product is called Ionic Plus and it really is an ionic silver solution, the ad tries to confuse the reader by claiming these are silver particles of ions, truly a non-existent technical description. More techno-babble trying to make ions appear to be particles.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for Ionic Silver, an ionic silver solution produced by WaterOz. and sold on the kormax.com website.
Ionic silver at wholesale prices. 99.9999% pure liquid ionic silver in the form of silver hydroxide. A nearly 100% absorbable and 100% bioavailable form of silver.
"pure liquid ionic silver in the form of silver hydroxide..." While the product is called Ionic Silver and it really is an ionic silver solution, the ad states that the anion is hydroxide. For this statement to be true silver hydroxide would have to be a water soluble salt of silver, which it is not. Silver hydroxide is not water soluble, meaning it does not dissolve in water. All hydroxides are insoluble EXCEPT those of ammonium, barium and alkali metal (Group I) cations. For more see: Rules of Ionic Solubility (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Tables/Solubility_Rules.html). This misleading information is attempting to obscure the true nature of the anion content of this product.
Laboratory analysis of this product has determined that the anion is citrate. So while the label simply states that the product is ionic silver, it is actually a water soluble silver salt, silver citrate dissolved in water. One can only wonder what they are trying hide.
"99.9999% pure" is stating the purity at six nines or .999999 purity. While it may be technically possible to produce six nines purity, the price of the silver is about 100 times greater than four nines purity (.9999) which is the industry accepted level of purity for such products. We know of no product on the market that is actually made using six nines silver due to the excessive costs involved.
The manufacturer (WaterOz) has confirmed that the metal purity used to produce their product is really three nines (0.999), but this does not deter the sales company from advertising six nines purity, obviously a complete fabrication.

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad for Earthborn Products Colloidal Silver, an ionic silver solution labeled as "colloidal silver".
A colloid is a very small particle that is insoluble yet remains suspended and dispersed in a fluid medium, without actually forming an ionic solution. Dissolved solids are ionic, not colloidal.
This is a correct description of a colloid, however, Laboratory Analysis (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr19/cpr_19.html) indicates that this product actually contains only 0.52 ppm of silver which is all ionic.
OURS: A colloidal silver consisting of 100 ppm (parts per million) of pure silver (99.999%), suspended in steam-distilled water.
Laboratory measurements (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr19/cpr_19.html) found no measurable silver particles present and silver that was present is only one half of one percent of the labeled value. This product contains little on no silver at all.
We call our product "Monatomic Colloidal Silver" because the only element in suspension is individual silver atoms (mono=one and atomic=atom). No stabilizers, additives, chemicals, or proteins, are added.
Monatomic silver cannot exisit due to the van der Waals' force (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#vanderwaal) of mutual attraction. Products claiming to be monatomic are really ionic silver. For more details see The Myth of Monatomic Colloidal Silver. (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/Monatomic-Myth.html)

<HR>The statements highlighted in red below are from an internet ad by Survival Enterprises, a company that sells an ionic solution produced by Silver Water Products called Silver Wain Water.
The new wave of colloidal silver merchants (especially on the Internet) try to convince you that PPM (parts per million) or particle surface area (size of particle) is all that matters. Both those measurements have little, if anything, to do with the actual effectiveness of any Colloidal Silver product.
According to this statement particle surface area has little, if anything, to do with effectiveness of any colloidal silver product. However, in the booklet "Silver Colloids" Professor Ronald Gibbs wrote "The size of the particles in the colloidal silver suspensions we use for health purposes is very important. Particle size controls the surface area and therefore the effectiveness of the colloidal silver suspension."
Those that promote the false theory that particle surface area or PPM is all that matters, do so ONLY to sell their substandard and over priced products.
Laboratory analysis of this product (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr22/cpr_22.html) has determined that the total silver concentration is 2.43 ppm and the particle surface area is 0.083 sq. cm. The ppm and surface area values for this product rank among the lowest values for such a product. Is it any wonder that this promoter wants to convince you that these values just don't matter?
TPV (Therapeutic Particles per Volume) is the proper way to measure strength. A silver dollar in a cup of water has a concentration of 92,690 PPM, but it has ZERO therapeutical value.
Here we are told that the proper way to measure strength is the Therapeutic Particles per Volume (TPV) a term not defined on the web site or in any field of science. It is a made up term. This is an example of "techno babble", wherein make believe technical sounding terms are used to try to impress the non-technical reading public.
Colloidal Silver has NOTHING added to it. It is made of pure, deionized water and 99.99% pure silver. Our Colloidal Silver is 3 PPM, yet there's over 9,000,000,000 particles of pure silver per ounce!
Laboratory analysis of this product (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr22/cpr_22.html) has determined that it consists of 94.7% ionic silver and 5.3% silver particles. The product is predominantly ionic silver but the ad statement above is the classical deception trying to fool the reader into believing that silver ions are really silver particles.
While the product is labeled "Colloidal Silver", it is just another ionic silver solution claiming to be colloidal silver.

<HR>si if all these home made and bought generators are creating ionic silver then it will react with chlorine ion and will be useless ??or not any comment
some moore reading http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/AboutIonic.html
I do plan to buy coloidal silver generator but after reading this I have some
:chat:d oubts<o:p></o:p>

gpond
10-31-2005, 09:47 PM
My small contribution from personal experience only:

Kills jock itch (topically) like nothing I've ever used before. Very fine fungicide.

I also use on small cuts and abrasions. Calms razor burn very well - a very intelligent after-shave.

Seems to prevent sinus infections when snorted as a nasal spray.

Andy9999
10-31-2005, 11:30 PM
My small contribution from personal experience only:

Kills jock itch (topically) like nothing I've ever used before. Very fine fungicide.

I also use on small cuts and abrasions. Calms razor burn very well - a very intelligent after-shave.

Seems to prevent sinus infections when snorted as a nasal spray.

This is given it works, but question is if these colloidal generators are producing colloidal silver (small colloidal silver or bigger "colloidal ions with charge Ag+) these ions will react with chlorine which is in abundance in our body .If generators produce 90% of ions and 10% colloidal silver then it would be that they work better as outside the body topical like things, or fungicide, bactericides etc, but inside the body they react with chlorine ion.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Any chemist out there???<o:p></o:p>

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 12:11 AM
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/pubs.html free booklet see page 13 of it ,it says that yellow color of product is not desirable due to large sizes scroll to the bottom to download PDF file

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 12:34 AM
some moore informations
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#advice

<!--StartFragment --> The ionic silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.silver) solutions produced by generators used by home hobbyists tends to be photosensitive and will deteriorate over a short period of time if not shielded from visible light. By storing such solutions in amber bottles the deterioration is reduced. The most photosensitive solutions are produced using the low voltage DC process, often by using several 9 volt batteries. The requirement for an amber bottle indicates a photosensitive, unstable solution. Only the lowest quality solutions are photosensitive.
<!--StartFragment --> Many companies sell colloidal silver generators and dozens of web sites provide information for experimenters and home hobbyists. All the machines sold for making colloidal silver use an electrolysis process and make ionic silver. There are no machines sold that are capable of making true colloidal silver ...read some moore

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 12:38 AM
<!--StartFragment --> http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#advice:rock: Why is it important to how much of the total is ionic?
The benefits of colloidal silver in the human body are produced by the nanometer (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#nanometer) sized metallic silver particles (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.particles) not the ions (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ion). In most colloidal silver products a large quantity of ionic silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.silver) is produced as a by-product of generating the silver particles. The prominent methods of production are electrochemical processes using either low voltage DC current or high voltage AC. Both the AC and DC process may employ a constant voltage or a constant current source. Both the DC and the high voltage AC produce a significant percentage of the total silver as ionic. Typically, 75 - 99% of total silver is ionic depending on process variables. In some products claiming very high concentration (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#concentration) levels, almost the entire silver content is ionic. To state the silver concentration in ppm without specifying what percentage is ionic is misleading to say the least. Therefore, it is important to know what percentage of the silver concentration is ionic to properly evaluate the quality and effectiveness of the product. >>Top of page (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#top)
What happens when colloidal silver is ingested?
Upon ingestion, the ionic silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.silver) present in most colloidal silver solutions will immediately come into contact with the hydrochloric (HCl) acid that normally exists in the stomach to digest food. The chloride ion from the hydrochloric acid combines at once with the silver ion (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion) to form silver chloride, (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.chloride) an insoluble silver compound. Since hydrochloric acid does not dissolve metallic silver, the silver particles remain unaffected by the stomach acid. Some of the remaining silver particles (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.particles), due to their nanometer (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#nanometer) size will pass easily through the lining of the gastro-intestinal tract and will be absorbed into the bloodstream where they will circulate and come in contact with pathogens which will be killed on contact. The silver chloride that precipitates in the stomach consists of large molecules (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#molecule). Silver chloride that is not absorbed into the bloodstream will be passed out of the body with solid waste. Silver chloride that does get absorbed through the lining of the GI tract into the bloodstream will be removed by the kidneys and passed out of the body in urine. >>Top of page (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#top)
How else can colloidal silver particles get into the body?
Colloidal silver can enter the blood stream directly by at least two different means. The first is through the lungs by using a nebulizer to convert the colloidal silver into micron (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#micron) size droplets and then inhaling these droplets. The small size of the silver particles (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.particles) and silver ions (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion) will pass through the lung tissue directly into the blood stream. Once in the blood stream, the particles will circulate with the blood but the ions will immediately combine with the plentiful supply of chloride ions in the serum. Human blood serum (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#serum) contains a large quantity of sodium and potassium chloride. The chloride ions are present in the serum in high concentration (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#concentration), typically 3500 ppm. The chloride ions immediately combine with the silver ions to form silver chloride (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.chloride). The large silver chloride molecules (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#molecule) will be removed from the blood stream by the kidneys and passed out of the body in urine.
The second way colloidal silver can pass directly into the blood stream is by sublingual absorption (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#absorption). The thin membranes under the tongue will pass the small particles and ions directly into the blood stream. Once in the blood stream, the ions will precipitate out as described above leaving the particles to circulate with the blood.
Because the silver ions cannot exist for long in the human body regardless of the entry mechanism, they really represent an undesired byproduct that is passed from the body as waste. The ideal colloidal silver would maximize the percentage of particles and minimize the percent of ions. Since typical colloidal silver products contain a very high percentage of ionic silver, there is a lot of potential for improvement by reducing the ionic content as close to zero percent as possible. >>Top of page (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#top)
Is there a simple way to demonstrate the ionic silver present?
To demonstrate ionic silver (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#ionic.silver) content, all that is needed, is a chloride ion source to be added to a small amount of colloidal silver. Normal table salt is sodium chloride (NaCl). When table salt is dissolved in water it decomposes into sodium ions and chloride ions. To demonstrate: Place a small amount (1-2 ounces) of colloidal silver in a clear glass. Add a few grains of table salt. Observe that as the salt dissolves a white cloud of silver chloride (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.chloride) forms in the solution. Eventually, the entire solution will turn cloudy. If more salt is added, the white silver chloride will become denser until all the silver ions (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion) have combined with the available chlorine ions. If no silver ions are present then no white cloud will form. > (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/FAQ.html#top)

Silverity
11-01-2005, 01:28 PM
Anyone care to do the salt test on the Silvergen CS generator?

"To figure out whether a solution is ionic silver, you only need add chloride ions. Common table salt, which is sodium chloride, will do. If silver ions are present the chloride ions will combine with the silver ions and create a white, cloudy appearance. To form a cloud that is visible requires that a sufficient concentration of silver ions be present, typically about 10 ppm or above. Simply place 1-2 ounces of ionic silver in a clear glass. Add a few grains of table salt. Observe whether, as the salt dissolves, a white cloud of silver chloride forms in the solution. If so, eventually, the entire solution will turn cloudy. If more salt is added, the white silver chloride will become denser until all the silver ions have combined with the available chlorine ions. If no silver ions are present then no white cloud will form. Here’s the rub: Some products will not make a white cloud of silver chloride when table salt is added because they contain no silver at all, or very little silver. Believe it or not, lab analysis has shown that some "silver" products actually contain no silver!"

gpond
11-01-2005, 02:46 PM
I will try this on my own CS solution. However, the quote says: "To figure out whether a solution is ionic silver..." which seems slightly misleading to me, though not a scientist for sure. Seems it would be better worded "To figure out whether a solution contains some ionic silver..." The distinction I'm getting at is that just because a solution contains some ionic silver does not imply that it is 100% ionic silver, or so it seems to me. Theoretically, could not my solution contain some ionic silver and some colloidal silver? Testing for the presence of ionic silver does not necessarily rule out the presence of colloidal silver, I think, nor does it attempt to measure the ratio of one to the other.

Naturally I would prefer to hear from someone who knows a lot more about this than I do.

G-khan
11-01-2005, 08:48 PM
I will try this on my own CS solution. However, the quote says: "To figure out whether a solution is ionic silver..." which seems slightly misleading to me, though not a scientist for sure. Seems it would be better worded "To figure out whether a solution contains some ionic silver..." The distinction I'm getting at is that just because a solution contains some ionic silver does not imply that it is 100% ionic silver, or so it seems to me. Theoretically, could not my solution contain some ionic silver and some colloidal silver? Testing for the presence of ionic silver does not necessarily rule out the presence of colloidal silver, I think, nor does it attempt to measure the ratio of one to the other.

Naturally I would prefer to hear from someone who knows a lot more about this than I do.

The claim that comes with the generator you and I have gpond is that it makes about a 50/50 solution. I asked this very question to the CEO .......

gpond
11-01-2005, 08:48 PM
Anyone care to do the salt test on the Silvergen CS generator?

"To figure out whether a solution is ionic silver, you only need add chloride ions. Common table salt, which is sodium chloride, will do. If silver ions are present the chloride ions will combine with the silver ions and create a white, cloudy appearance. To form a cloud that is visible requires that a sufficient concentration of silver ions be present, typically about 10 ppm or above. Simply place 1-2 ounces of ionic silver in a clear glass. Add a few grains of table salt. Observe whether, as the salt dissolves, a white cloud of silver chloride forms in the solution. If so, eventually, the entire solution will turn cloudy. If more salt is added, the white silver chloride will become denser until all the silver ions have combined with the available chlorine ions. If no silver ions are present then no white cloud will form. Here’s the rub: Some products will not make a white cloud of silver chloride when table salt is added because they contain no silver at all, or very little silver. Believe it or not, lab analysis has shown that some "silver" products actually contain no silver!"OK, I tried it.

I poured approximately 2 ounces of my CS solution into a clear glass "beaker". Then I added 8 to 12 individual grains of Morton's table salt to the mixture. They seemed to fall straight to the bottom. I saw no change in the solution, nor the salt. I swished the glass around a little to dissolve the salt -- very gently. No change. I added more salt, say about a third of a thimble full. This salt also seemed to fall straight to the bottom. Swished the glass around some. No change. In fact it was somewhat difficult to get the salt to dissolve at all. Quite brisk swirling of the glass was required to dissolve all of the salt. After only gentle glass-swirling the salt (or most of it) would settle back to the bottom of the glass. But after brisk swirling the salt did all dissolve.

I never did see any obvious cloudiness in the liquid. I believe I may have detected very very slight cloudiness at some points of the experiment, but my wife and I had difficulty deciding if it was cloudy at all. After swirling the solution with the completely dissolved salt we could make out patterns that resembled "heat waves on concrete" if you know what I mean. Not cloudiness. Any cloudiness we may or may have not detected was approximately what you would expect to see if you dissolved salt in tap-water. Certainly no more than that.

I must say that I did expect to see cloudiness, and was surprised at the results. Secondly, I must say that I know for a fact that my solution contains silver because I put it there using my CS generator.

I report, you decide. What do the results mean?

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 08:52 PM
I will try this on my own CS solution. However, the quote says: "To figure out whether a solution is ionic silver..." which seems slightly misleading to me, though not a scientist for sure. Seems it would be better worded "To figure out whether a solution contains some ionic silver..." The distinction I'm getting at is that just because a solution contains some ionic silver does not imply that it is 100% ionic silver, or so it seems to me. Theoretically, could not my solution contain some ionic silver and some colloidal silver? Testing for the presence of ionic silver does not necessarily rule out the presence of colloidal silver, I think, nor does it attempt to measure the ratio of one to the other.

Naturally I would prefer to hear from someone who knows a lot more about this than I do.

According to website above they claim that colloidal silver generators producing 85-95% of ions and 5% of colloidal silver what means, that even if you have white cloud effect, you can't determine if you have 10% or 99%<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

G-khan
11-01-2005, 10:14 PM
According to website above they claim that colloidal silver generators producing 85-95% of ions and 5% of colloidal silver what means, that even if you have white cloud effect, you can't determine if you have 10% or 99%<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I did the same as gpond and got the same results...........

G-khan
11-01-2005, 10:19 PM
If I shine a lazer light pen through it I can see the Silver - but no cloud...

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 11:15 PM
If I shine a lazer light pen through it I can see the Silver - but no cloud...
Do you see Tyndall effect??:eek:

http://www.silver-lightning.com/tyndall/

G-khan
11-01-2005, 11:20 PM
Do you see Tyndall effect??:eek:

http://www.silver-lightning.com/tyndall/

Yes - so what?

Andy9999
11-01-2005, 11:37 PM
Yes - so what?
Only very small "molecules "will give Tyndall effect.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
From school I remember it was one of the criteria to define COLLOID<o:p></o:p>
But wait a minute your Tyndall effect is caused by fog from your 'HUMIDIFIER"and not necessary by your silver colloid.<o:p></o:p>
Look for Tyndall effect in your "mixture" produced by generator.<o:p></o:p>
Remember FOG is COLLOID!!!
Not trying to be difficult but I'm already consuming this stuff ,and planning to buy generator it is a little DD.:confused:

Silverity
11-02-2005, 05:53 AM
What does it mean? I am not sure.

The original post cited research that claimed only particulates and not ions have the medicinal effect. However, this link from Silvergen links to tests which claim the exact opposite - it is the ions which kill the bugs:

http://www.silvergen.com/ionic_versus_colloidal_silver.htm

Silvergen claims up to 15% silver particulates in their solution with the majority being ionised atoms. So we have two studies claiming opposite results!

As a potential purchaser of a Silvergen CSG, what do I make of it?

I think the pro-ionic study looks safer plus we have the testimonies of the guys here to back up ionic CS. I say that because the original study cited worked on the assumption that it was the particulates and not the ions doing the business. However, if it was the ions doing the bacteria killing, their test couldn't see it because they were concerned about was silver particulates.

They were citing how many bacteria cultures were being killed by the silver particulates when in fact it may have been the ions (and possibly the particulates as well) doing it!

Bad assumptions lead to bad results.

Andy9999
11-02-2005, 08:03 AM
"As a potential purchaser of a Silvergen CSG, what do I make of it?"

s:confused: ame here I'm confused,need to do some moore DD

Jaysun
11-02-2005, 11:23 PM
I've been following this forum for a couple weeks now in my research about colloidal silver. After reading this latest thread I decided to register and post a response.

Before anybody takes this website "silver-colloids.com" as the gospel on colloidal silver, check out these links below.

http://www.colloidalsciencelab.com/aboutFSK.htm
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Authors/key.html
http://www.purestcolloids.com/about.htm#francis

It looks to me that there is a bias from silver-colloids.com, seeing that this guy is the President of the company that distributes Mesosilver.

Hope this information helps.

nygoose
11-04-2005, 06:12 AM
I am trying to create a CS generator using a hybrid design. The particular specs http://preventionforever.com/silver.htm for the generator I am building call for the use of eight ounces of distilled water, a 6V DC transformer, a fish tank bubbler and 5 hours of processing to produce the desired concentration of CS. I am trying to determine how to calculate the necessary time to produce greater amounts of the finished product.</P><P>For example, I want to produce a batch of 16 ounces of finished product instead of the 8 ounces used in the inventor's specs. His example requires 5 hours of generating time. How do you calculate the time necessary to produce twice as much of the product in the larger batch?</P>