Levees Blown Say Eyewitnesses

[Dixie]

In fact in I am going to do that...I will see how many people end up beleiving for fact what I put up. Give me a little bit and I will post back a link.

http://igold.be/

I got a little carried away. haha. :rofl:

THIS is the REAL THING. THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. It is the truth because it deviates away from logic reasoning and people want to beleive in things that are not there.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I bet you look good in a skirt.


I promise you that you’ll never get the chance to find out!

Are you a bench tech? Or were you once a bench tech?

[bigjon]

I promise you that you’ll never get the chance to find out!

Are you a bench tech? Or were you once a bench tech?

Nope, just a field engineer. :banana:

[AMforPM]

I certainly wasn't there, but before dismissing the hundreds of reports of people hearing explosions who lived near the ruptures, and dismissing where the water would have been without those specific breaches (that data is searchable from before Katrina - near 2 story rooftop level in the Quarter), and other data, read up on the 1927 flood, when levees were breached to save the high dollar areas.

""Many locals have come forward to suggest that the levees were breached on purpose by the authorities. Resident Andrea Garland, now re-located to Texas, wrote in her blog:

"Also heard that part of the reason our house flooded is they dynamited part of the levee after the first section broke - they did this to prevent Uptown (the rich part of town) from being flooded. Apparently they used too much dynamite, thus flooding part of the Bywater. So now I know who is responsible for flooding my house - not Katrina, but our government."

This scenario is not so crazy as it sounds, in fact this exact thing has happened before in the same city. In 1927, the Mississippi River broke its banks in 145 places, depositing water at depths of up to 30ft over 27,000 square miles of land.

The disaster changed American society, shifting hundreds of thousands of delta-dwelling blacks into northern cities and cementing the divisions and suspicions that benign neglect has ensured remain today. New Orleans’ (mainly white) business class pressurized the state to dynamite a levee upstream, releasing water into (mainly black) areas of the delta. Black workers were forced to work on flood relief at gunpoint, like slaves.

Two parishes, St. Bernard and Plaquemines, which had a combined population of 10,000, were destroyed. Just before Katrina, these parishes had about 10 times the 1927 population. Both parishes are now under many feet of water.

This information is covered in depth in a book by John M. Barry entitled Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America, 1997 which has incidentally become heavily in demand after Katrina.""

[honu5050]

cheep easy and effective way to grab land and displace population.obviously the long wait before any help arrived was to stir up a angery crowd.perhapes a riot then ya would of seen how swift TPTB would swoop into action caping anyone in sight to declare martial law and start gun grabing.the smug look on bush said it all. every day another law takes what little freedom we still have away. :censored:

[Dixie]

Of the above all<INCLUDE all><INCLUDE all><? include () ?><? include all replies() ?>

Yeah! And the Russians probably made the Hurricane target us. They have an earthquake generator so what is so stop them from getting us with hurricanes?

[honu5050]

more like supercomputers running calculations a mite quicker then I can peck at this keyboard in conjuction with equiptment that is used to control the weather.what do ya think the satilites goin round sense? no one in the 40's knew what the manhatten project was.ya citizens got a long way to go.injoy yer plastic.what was it some one said,pea brains. :censored:

[GREENSILVERHORN]

The conspiracy is the misappropriation of funds to sure the levee to begin with.

Wasn't there more than one break?

A levee breaks when topped by water not when hit by two seperate barges at two seperate locations.

It will be designed to hold all the water behind it until topped, surely somebody must have seen this topping. The fact that both went around the same time is all to conclusive.


Simple, or not?

[honu5050]

simple for those so Inclined.

[bigjon]

How about 5 breaches.

--------------------------------

<dl><dt><center> Mystery Surrounds
Levee Breaches
Could A Structural Flaw Be To Blame?
By John McQuaid
Staff writer
9-14-5</center> </dt><dt><center> </center> </dt><dt><center><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="57" width="551"> <tbody><tr> <td height="56" valign="top" width="100%"> <dl><dt>One of the central mysteries emerging in the Hurricane Katrina disaster is why concrete floodwalls in three canals breached during the storm, causing much of the catastrophic flooding, while earthen hurricane levees surrounding the city remained intact. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>It probably will take months to investigate and make a conclusive determination about what happened, according to the Army Corps of Engineers. But two Louisiana State University scientists who have examined the breaches suggest that a structural flaw in the floodwalls might be to blame. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"Why did we have no hurricane levee failures but five separate places with floodwall failures?" asked Joseph Suhayda, a retired LSU coastal engineer who examined the breaches last week. "That suggests there may be something about floodwalls that makes them more susceptible to failure. Did (the storm) exceed design conditions? What were the conditions? What about the construction?" </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Ivor Van Heerden, who uses computer models to study storm-surge dynamics for the LSU Hurricane Center, has said that fragmentary initial data indicate that Katrina's storm-surge heights in Lake Pontchartrain would not have been high enough to top the canal walls and that a "catastrophic structural failure" occurred in the floodwalls. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Corps project manager Al Naomi said that the Corps' working theory is that the floodwalls were well-constructed, but once topped they gave way after water scoured their interior sides, wearing away their earth-packed bases. But he said some other problem could have caused the breaches. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"They could have been overtopped. There could have been some structural failure. They could have been impacted by some type of debris," Naomi said. "I don't think it's right to make some type of judgment now. It's like presuming the reason for a plane crash without recovering the black box." </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Officials long had warned about the danger of levees being topped by high water from a storm surge. Absent topping, floodwalls are supposed to remain intact. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>The floodwalls lining New Orleans canals consist of concrete sections attached to steel sheet pile drilled deep into the earth, fortified by a concrete and earthen base. The sections are joined with a flexible, waterproof substance. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Floodwalls were breached in the 17th Street Canal, at two places in the London Avenue Canal, and at two places in the Industrial Canal, Suhayda said. Naomi said last week that one of the Industrial Canal breaches likely was caused by a loose barge that broke through it. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Suhayda said that his inspection of the debris from the 17th Street Canal breach suggests the wall simply gave way. "It looks to have been laterally pushed, not scoured in back with dirt being removed in pieces," he said. "You can see levee material, some distance pushed inside the floodwall area, like a bulldozer pushed it." </dt><dt> </dt><dt>He suggested that because the walls failed in a few spots, the flaw may not be in the design but in the construction or materials. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"Those sections in the rest of the wall should have been subjected to the same forces as that section that failed," he said. "Why did one side fail, not the other side?" </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Drainage canals typically are lined with floodwalls instead of the wider earthen levees that protect the lakefront because of a lack of space, engineers say. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"It's a right-of-way issue," Naomi said. "Usually, there are homes right up against the canal. You have to relocate five miles of homes (to build a levee), or you can build a floodwall." </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Constructing a more expensive earthen levee also would require building farther out into the canal itself, reducing the size of the canal - and the volume of water it could handle. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Naomi said that an earthen levee also could have been breached if the surge had pushed water over the top. "A levee failure might be more gradual than with a floodwall," he said. "It means you may have flooded a little slower." </dt><dt> </dt><dt>The central question for engineers investigating the breaches will be whether the floodwalls were topped - and that's still unclear. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>The levee system, floodwalls included, is designed to protect against an average storm surge of 11.5 feet above sea level. The Corps adds several more feet of "freeboard" to account for waves and other dynamics. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Naomi said the Industrial Canal floodwalls were topped by water coming in from the east. But scientists don't yet know exactly whether Katrina's Lake Pontchartrain surge was high enough to go over the wall in the two other canals. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Many storm surge gauges stopped functioning during the storm, LSU climatologist Barry Keim, though initial data point to a mi-lake height of eight or nine feet. Heights typically are higher at the Lakefront area because wind pushes water higher against the levees. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>Suhayda said the debris line on the lakefront levee adjacent to the canal was "several feet" below the top. The levees are 17 or 18 feet high in that area. The canal levees, however, average only 14 feet. Storm surges have waves and other dynamics that push water still higher than the average height. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"There are big implications for as little as a one-foot change in elevation" of the storm surge, Suhayda said. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>If the water did not top the levees, the breaches could prove more mysterious. Typically, the pounding of wave action would be the most likely way to cause a breach, scientists say. But there isn't much wave action in canals. </dt><dt> </dt><dt>"Waves constantly breaking on the structure start to erode it and make it become unstable," said LSU coastal geologist Greg Stone, who studies storm-surge dynamics. "But I don't think that was a major factor in the canals. You just don't have the (open area) to allow wave growth to occur." </dt><dt> </dt><dt>http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlo~
gs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_13.html#079207 (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_13.html#079207)</dt></dl></td></tr></tbody></table></center></dt></dl>

[GREENSILVERHORN]

5 LEVEES!!!

Wow, I only thought it was broken in two places.

For sure I could see 1 levee breaking and then causing a general failure in that immediate location of other sub-sections, because of water on both sides of it, but 5?

I wonder how far apart they were?

Topping of levees would definetly had to have been seen before for this many breakages and plenty of time in between for the others to fail.

Fact is if 1 levee broke I'm sure the army corps. of engineers could have it repaired in a forthnight but 2 or 3 yeah let the city drown.

The view is through the front windows and up through the hole and it shows a cloudless night scene, which he proclaims is the night just prior to all the flooding.

So the storm has passed and someone blows the dike, but of course it could be just a photoshop job, from some guy who just happened to be there, who wants to stir up trouble, who has a drug habit, who is a totally unreliable source, bla, bla bla.

This probably during the broken eyewall when yes most of the damage was already done, you could probably catch the eye in a horizon shot from New Orleans.

Or after it passed clouds inland and clear at sea.

[GREENSILVERHORN]

Eh, big jon and guard you guys frik and frak?

Seriously guard your two guys posts before all this bickering were so similar I couldn't tell yous two apart.

[honu5050]

A choice between the french quarter or garden district going under and the slums as the rain rolled down the river was made, it looks like to me. It was done before in a big flood to save the quarter and the garden district.

How much will it take for us to get honest government? Katrina and 9-11 were horror shows right in public.Its the "right in public" part that sends up a red flag to me. no ones makeing any attempt to do the jobs in a real slick way! so to me this means that TPTB must feel they have total control and could care less about public opinion.the long wait to send help, just the entier deal as in the 9/11 job.obviously they feel very confident and dont care and that could be dangerios.sounds like they are confident in there plans.:bandito: this would be better answered by a psycoligist into psyop's tatics. as I would call it someones shooting a move! :censored:

[bigjon]

Map of floodwall breaches:


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/897/827/320/map-leveebreaches_sm.jpg (http://www.nola.com/images/hp/breachedlevees120805.pdf)
This link does work if you click on it.

[Large Sarge]

giving this one a bump since it seems to be the "topic du jour"