SCHOLARS REPUDIATE OFFICIAL VERSION OF 9/11

[Halophyte]

Send this note to Dr. Jones...

He is anxiously awaiting "peer Review", and since you feel you are his peer....and upto the challenge of discrediting him and his paper...

I could give a damn less about "Dr." Jones's credentials or story line, maybe less than he does for my dirty, blue collar, common scense, experienced comments.

Why do you defend the Govt's Flim Flam story?

They still have not even come clean on WTC 7 and the pentagon, and you feel they are telling the truth on the twin towers...

Wassup with that?

I don't give a damn about the official govcrat's official story. Neither do I give a damn about supporting the docu-drama's hyper money making story lines.

I'm not into either party's stupid soap opra.




Why does my views on the subject bother YOU sooooooooooooooo much !

If what I was stating, was so much bunk, it would be easy to dismiss. But it doesn't work that way. You're miffed cause you can't find the magic explosives.

Don't worry Sarge, neither can Dr. Jones.



I was replying to skyvike, so be nice student and wait your turn.



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[Large Sarge]

I could give a damn less about "Dr." Jones's credentials or story line, maybe less than he does for my dirty, blue collar, common scense, experienced comments.



I don't give a damn about the official govcrat's official story. Neither do I give a damn about supporting the docu-drama's hyper money making story lines.

I'm not into either party's stupid soap opra.




Why does my views on the subject bother YOU sooooooooooooooo much !

If what I was stating, was so much bunk, it would be easy to dismiss. But it doesn't work that way. You're miffed cause you can't find the magic explosives.

Don't worry Sarge, neither can Dr. Jones.



I was replying to skyvike, so be nice student and wait your turn.



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Your views do not bother me Halo, it is your ignorance, from someone who seems very intelligent...


Your dirty, blue collar experiences add little value if you continue to ignore real life physics and make excuses for any part of the story that does not fit your own muddled model (i.e. WTC 7 collapse, Pentagon cover up, NORAD standdown ordered by Cheney, Record number of Puts placed on united & American, and good old LArry Silverstein making 4 billion dollars in 6 weeks)

Like I said send your concerns on to Dr. Jones, He and all the other real scientists around the world, should really appreciate your "Good old Blue collar common sense", tell him about your wonderfully varied work experiences in the "field"

Should be an interesting conversation, especially considering that lots of real life structural engineers said what happened was impossible....

Maybe you should just contact Johnny Cochran at this point, "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit"

Sad really Halo, your "Hearsay experience", Near death encounters on various jobs somehow qualifies you to explain this whole matter, compared to a man that has dedicated his entire career to math and physics....

ooops, I just remembered, Johnnny Cochrane is dead....

lets see, We have Robert Shapiro....

[Halophyte]

Your views do not bother me either Sarge, it is your gullability.



Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists are studying the impact and the initial damage to the superstucture.

But those studies don't fit Dr. Jones model.

Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists are studying the buildings fire protection and propagation of the fires.

But those studies don't fit Dr. Jones model.

Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists keep looking for evidence of explosives.

But those searches don't fit Dr. Jones model.



I'll suggest this one more time.

I'm being nice.

This is a limited time offer.



Let the "other real scientists around the world" argue the facts.



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[Large Sarge]

Your views do not bother me either Sarge, it is your gullability.



Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists are studying the impact and the initial damage to the superstucture.

But those studies don't fit Dr. Jones model.

Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists are studying the buildings fire protection and propagation of the fires.

But those studies don't fit Dr. Jones model.

Lots of real life structural engineers and scientists keep looking for evidence of explosives.

But those searches don't fit Dr. Jones model.



I'll suggest this one more time.

I'm being nice.

This is a limited time offer.



Let the "other real scientists around the world" argue the facts.



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I really do not care if you are nice or not, if Steven Jones and all of us Conspiracy nuts are wrong, I will admit it, unlike you I am able to admit I am mistaken.... (thats called learning Halo )

Do you understand what "Peer review" means...

Here is a definition for you

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Peer%20review



Do you understand that lots of very smart people are trying to discredit his paper right now...

and that the longer it goes with no mention of a fallacy or inconsistency, the more likely it is correct...


since you seem so convinced that Dr. jones is a crackpot, conspiracy nut, like the rest of us, why don't you put your "good old blue collar experience" to the test....

Send him a nice rebuttal stating your concerns....

you can Carbon copy GIM

but we all know you will never do that, "just blowing smoke" ...

I thought of one other contact for you, President Clinton could probably get a jury to believe your story....
He is very good at manipulating the facts....

[Halophyte]

Agreed skyvike. The whole mess stinks. Too many excuses for failure or just ignored by the powers that be. I can't attempt to answer for all the anomalies in the 'big picture'. Too many missing pieces to the puzzle. Agatha Christy couldn't have written a better story.

I can only explain the parts of I understand from my experiences and education. And that is as limited as any docu-drama.

I have my knowledge of structural design and you've got your gift of aeronautics. We work with what the gods have given us.

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[PatColo]

I could give a damn less about "Dr." Jones's credentials or story line, maybe less than he does for my dirty, blue collar, common scense, experienced comments.



could you give a damn about a MILLION DOLLARS? (http://reopen911.org/Contest.htm)

[Halophyte]

He (they) have no intention to hand over anything as long as they can add to their theory anything, anytime.

Catch 22.

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[Ponce Cuba]

Well Halo, I don't have any kind of degrees and as a matter of fact not even a high school diploma but like you said we work with what God gave us and to me he gave common sense and by using that common sense I say (once again) that it is impossible for three buildings to come down the same way and specially bldg 7 that was not hit.

And that same common sense tells me that NO PLANE came down on the Pentagon.

Not being educated does not mean that I have to be stupid.

[Halophyte]

Since I'm not talking about BLDG 7 or the Pentagone or the other angles of the docu-drama experts, (never did) - why is it that the only replys to my input about the twin towers and their design/collapse has to do with attempts to drag me into the drama of their "big picture" ?

Doen't anyone know how to stay on topic ?

And if I try to stay on the bldg design/collapse topic - I'm being 'evasive' or a 'disinformation agent' for the 'neocons'.

But no one, I mean NO ONE, will comment on the structural framing fasteners.



Digressions prevail in the land of confusion.


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[Ponce Cuba]

Halo? in a court of law if you lie one time then it probably means that you lied in something else and if bldg 7 and The Pentagon are lies then to me it means that the Twin Towers are also lies......whats more the Twin Towers on it own merits to me is also a lie because of the way that they fell down.

Words can never be a substitute for what you see with your own eyes.

[GREENSILVERHORN]

Halo, just watch the videos again, these bldgs. were tremendously strong, they ate those planes and their fuel like I eat a hot dog at a BBQ.

Without the mustard.

If I swallowed my hot dog whole it might have a chance at coming back up,:puke: but these planes were shredded wheat.:sleep:

[Ponce Cuba]

Green? look at the video once again and you will see that most of the fuel in the second hit (about 75-80%) went out of the bldg and that's why I don't buy the part about the fuel melting the bldg down.

[Merlin]

...if you lie one time then it probably means that you lied in something else and if bldg 7 and The Pentagon are lies then to me it means that the Twin Towers are also lies...

David Ray Griffith (http://www.st911.org/), in The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie, lists over 100 lies and ommissions in the report of the 9/11 Commission. They wouldn't be lying if they weren't covering up something.

[GREENSILVERHORN]

Green? look at the video once again and you will see that most of the fuel in the second hit (about 75-80%) went out of the bldg and that's why I don't buy the part about the fuel melting the bldg down.

Trust me a building that was going to fall down from a jetliner hitting it, would have fallen down when the plane hit it.

Whoever was going to "pull" those buiding should have pulled them when the planes hit.

[bigjon]

Since I'm not talking about BLDG 7 or the Pentagone or the other angles of the docu-drama experts, (never did) - why is it that the only replys to my input about the twin towers and their design/collapse has to do with attempts to drag me into the drama of their "big picture" ?

Doen't anyone know how to stay on topic ?

And if I try to stay on the bldg design/collapse topic - I'm being 'evasive' or a 'disinformation agent' for the 'neocons'.

But no one, I mean NO ONE, will comment on the structural framing fasteners.



Digressions prevail in the land of confusion.


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According to what I've read UL tested the "flooring system" and certified it to the 2000 F standard.

It would be a very poor engineering job if they only certified the columns and overlooked the fasteners.

[GREENSILVERHORN]

a picture... 2 worst case scenarios

There is a thousand words in here.

[Silver Spartan]

Things that make you go hmmmmm. :hmmmm:

[Large Sarge]

But no one, I mean NO ONE, will comment on the structural framing fasteners.
Digressions prevail in the land of confusion.
.

are you still posting?

I thought you learned your lesson,

There is a difference you know between ignorant and stupid....

Stupidity is repeating the same mistake over and over, and never learning....

you are getting beyond ignorant.....

Nuff said,

Send all your questions to Dr. Jones, or make a million, quit wasting peoples time here, really....

[GREENSILVERHORN]

Ya see Halo's basic theory is that the "twin" towers were basically turned into two standing towers of ashes.

These inturn would crumble underneath their own weight.

Think of a lit cigarette. It burns from the top down when held straight up.

Until eventually the ashes fall.

And this is the key part.

They always fall to the side.

If I lit it in the middle, same thing.

They do not and never will fall onto their own footprints.

If they did once buy some freak of physics, it would never happen within the same day on the same planet.

[Halophyte]

Ya see Halo's basic theory is that the "twin" towers were basically turned into two standing towers of ashes.

These inturn would crumble underneath their own weight.

Think of a lit cigarette. It burns from the top down when held straight up.

Until eventually the ashes fall.

And this is the key part.

They always fall to the side.

If I lit it in the middle, same thing.

They do not and never will fall onto their own footprints.

If they did once buy some freak of physics, it would never happen within the same day on the same planet.

Understanding the physics is understanding the collapse.

The fireproofing is very questional, most likely compromised by the impact.

Drafting of all combustables was not covered by the engineering reports, effectively turned the buildings into 1000 foot chimneys. The heat was there to buckle the framing. It did not need to melt the beams. Conduction of heat would superheat and swell the fasteners.

Here's the math if you can digest it.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/t28890-the-math.html

[bigjon]

All that is necessary to find the cause of the collapse can be seen by watching the video YoGold recommended.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...911+eyewitness (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=911+eyewitness)

You can hear the very loud explosions and see the dust rising from the base of the towers well before the top starts to collapse, obviously pulled down by having the inner core of the base cut out from underneath.

[Silver Seraph]

All that is necessary to find the cause of the collapse can be seen by watching the video YoGold recommended.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...911+eyewitness (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=911+eyewitness)

You can hear the very loud explosions and see the dust rising from the base of the towers well before the top starts to collapse, obviously pulled down by having the inner core of the base cut out from underneath.

Yes, Halophyte, watch this video. About midway through it, you will see video of a helicopter flying by, and emitting a white hot flash of some sort. So bright and hot that it is visible through the smoke, when the helicopter is not. Literally two seconds later the South Tower begins to fall (it fell first). I don't think there's any other possible explanation, than that this helicopter sparked some sort of fuse that started the explosions. Interestingly, I haven't seen mention of this helicopter before on any other website, though I'm sure I haven't seen them all.

[Ponce Cuba]

About the second plane....... look at what is hanging behind and the fact that it had no windows......that thing hanging behind is the nozzle to hook up to another plane in order to give it some fuel or in other words the plane was a tanker.

Only thing is that the umbilical fuel nuzzle is not flying as it should.

[Halophyte]

All that is necessary to find the cause of the collapse can be seen by watching the video YoGold recommended.

Yes, that's all I need to know. Close my mind and watch the video. Suck up the suggestive nature of the drama. Ignore the internal collapsing structures. Just watch the outside of the building instead of questioning the structures.

You can hear the very loud explosions and see the dust rising from the base of the towers well before the top starts to collapse, obviously pulled down by having the inner core of the base cut out from underneath.

Nothing obvious to it. The building's center structure will obviously transfer the energy of top callapsing to its base, thru the superstructure.

Another armchair engineer evaluation. Highly suggestive.

Still feeding at the CONspiracy troff ?


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[bigjon]

Yes, that's all I need to know. Close my mind and watch the video. Suck up the suggestive nature of the drama. Ignore the internal collapsing structures. Just watch the outside of the building instead of questioning the structures.



Nothing obvious to it. The building's center structure will obviously transfer the energy of top callapsing to its base, thru the superstructure.

Another armchair engineer evaluation. Highly suggestive.

Still feeding at the CONspiracy troff ?
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You sure are eating the official CONspiracy theory, bub.

Way back when you said the momentum is what caused the collapse, but in this video we hear loud explosions (no momentum) and see dust coming from the base of the tower (no momentum) , nothing up top show any sign of moving. 78 floors with no fires no damage nothing is moving and yet there is dust welling up at the base, get a clue. Big explosions in the sub basement vaporizing the all 47 central columns (hauled away in haste), another explosion and still nothing moving.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...911+eyewitness (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=911+eyewitness)

[honu5050]

OR WE COULD ALL WATCH FOREST GUMP....NICE EFFECTS :hahaha: :sheep:

[Halophyte]

Way back when you said the momentum is what caused the collapse, but in this video we hear loud explosions (no momentum) and see dust coming from the base of the tower (no momentum) , nothing up top show any sign of moving. 78 floors with no fires no damage nothing is moving and yet there is dust welling up at the base, get a clue. Big explosions in the sub basement vaporizing the all 47 central columns (hauled away in haste), another explosion and still nothing moving.

Four words - 'top to bottom collapse', NOT the other way around.

I won't repeat myself again, if you can't believe your own eye's, it's not my problem.

Take out the bottom of the tower and it will topple over - just like the pictures on Dr. Jones (I'm starting to wonder about the "Doctor" credentials) web site of a tower that fell due to an Earthquake.

A top to bottom collapse will peal like a banana.

You (like others) have no idea of exactly when the 70th floor interior platform framing started to collapse.

You (like others) have no understanding of how much energy was transfered down thru the superstructure to the basement levels below (dust cloud), just before visual evidence of exterior collapse began at the top.

You (like others) have no clue.


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[honu5050]

ordinary people have no conception of life and death they are sheep.whos to say others are ordinary? the money changers certinly hooked the wtc up very "unordinary" but then to them what is the meaning of ordinary? the spliting of the atom perhaps? perhaps other more interesting lets just say things.

[bigjon]

Four words - 'top to bottom collapse', NOT the other way around.

I won't repeat myself again, if you can't believe your own eye's, it's not my problem.

Take out the bottom of the tower and it will topple over - just like the pictures on Dr. Jones (I'm starting to wonder about the "Doctor" credentials) web site of a tower that fell due to an Earthquake.

A top to bottom collapse will peal like a banana.

You (like others) have no idea of exactly when the 70th floor interior platform framing started to collapse. .

Nope, wrong again, I do have a clue and I totally agree with your funnel theory, with the exception of how the collapse starts. All 47 columns in the basement are blown (causing the dust that is seen in the video) vaporizing the core of the building at it's base.


You (like others) have no understanding of how much energy was transfered down thru the superstructure to the basement levels below (dust cloud), just before visual evidence of exterior collapse began at the top.

You (like others) have no clue.


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Again your story morphs to a new view, where once upon a time you needed the momentum of the whole portion of the upper floors to overcome the strength of the supporting 78 floors ( each floor having a safety tolerance of holding up 3 times its static load), it now changes to interior columns (that are being held up by the unmoving core structure) collapse and overcome the floors strength.

Shit, halo, not even you can believe your own unbelievable blather. you are disingenuous to the core.

[Ponce Cuba]

There is no one as blind as he who wont open his eyes.