Zionists Exposed by Islamic Academic

[Large Sarge]

Let's stop this nonsense. You aren't convincing me of anything. I think your porcupine defense for the U.S. is stupid, to put it kindly. You talk of defending ports and arming citizens, while anyone else would stop an attack before it get within 1000 miles.

Anyone feel free to ague with yourself, or with anyone else, or with me later in a few days, I have to go... Thanks.

so the guys who wrote the constitution were stupid, they created the wealthiest and most free nation in the world by accident....

Thanks for the debate, I enjoyed it immensely....

[Large Sarge]

One last point. Switzerland choses the porcupine defense not because they think it is best, but because it is their only option. We have natural defenses already built in - the Atlantic and Pacific.

Also, how does your porcupine defense work against nuclear weapons? Geesh.

Have you taken a look at our defense budget recently?

you ever wonder what we could do to fortify our own country if we were not spending trillions to terrorize the rest of the world?

Regarding nukes, "Mutually assured destruction"

snd you seem to forget something important about the porcupine, he is a nice enough fellow.... just keep your distance....

today we have the shark military... and we try and eat anything we can....

you do not see anyone wanting to nuke zurich do you?

no, because they are the porcupine.....

the porcupine does not really make enemies like the shark.....

the shark is feared and hunted everywhere

[Reformed Idealist]

so the guys who wrote the constitution were stupid, they created the wealthiest and most free nation in the world by accident....

Thanks for the debate, I enjoyed it immensely....

Ok you sucked me for one last go.

They came up with their views in a world without flight, without nuclear or biological weapons, without rogue nationless "terrorists" without even electricity or modern communications.

I think you should consider that just a little bit before you become more enthralled with porcupines.

[Large Sarge]

Ok you sucked me for one last go.

They came up with their views in a world without flight, without nuclear or biological weapons, without rogue nationless "terrorists" without even electricity or modern communications.

I think you should consider that just a little bit before you become more enthralled with porcupines.

please see my post comparing porcupines and sharks...

Very different temprament and reaction....

[hoarder]

One last point. Switzerland choses the porcupine defense not because they think it is best, but because it is their only option. We have natural defenses already built in - the Atlantic and Pacific.

Also, how does your porcupine defense work against nuclear weapons? Geesh.Switzerland practices non-interventionism. Just like a porcupine. It has worked so far.
Your ideas are only superficially strategically sound. You assume those in our government who make the determinations and decide on the strategies have the interest of Americans at heart, that is where you are terribly wrong.

Even if had real patriots in government looking out for our interests, they would be wrong to practice interventionism and pre-emptive strikes unless absolutely neccessary and only when they are absolutely sure of the enemy.

[Large Sarge]

Thanks for the debate, I sincerely enjoyed it....

[Buchan]

Two things stand out. 1) Most of this is Persian, so to state this is Islamic science is stretching it a bit. 2)The West was in the midst of the Dark Ages. That is the reason these stand out is because no corresponding advances were coming out of the West. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of their scientific prowess that once the West rose again, these accomplishments dimmed in their significance.

I agree, much of it was Persian or Persian-influenced. However, it is noteworthy that Islam did not stand in the way of these scientific advances, so it cannot be said that Islam is inherently anti-science. There has undoubtedly been a marked decline in Muslim scholarship and intellectual productivity since the 1400-1500s, much as Western civilization stagnated after the brilliance of Athens in the 400s BC. Much as we laud the achievements of, say, the Roman Empire, the Romans accomplished very little, especially in science. They are notorious for their incuriosity and their complete lack of inventions (other than military I suppose). Western science did not take off until the Renaissance, but even then it required the industrial revolution to give Europe unchallenged supremacy over the Islamic world.

[Reformed Idealist]

I agree, much of it was Persian or Persian-influenced. However, it is noteworthy that Islam did not stand in the way of these scientific advances, so it cannot be said that Islam is inherently anti-science. There has undoubtedly been a marked decline in Muslim scholarship and intellectual productivity since the 1400-1500s, much as Western civilization stagnated after the brilliance of Athens in the 400s BC. Much as we laud the achievements of, say, the Roman Empire, the Romans accomplished very little, especially in science. They are notorious for their incuriosity and their complete lack of inventions (other than military I suppose). Western science did not take off until the Renaissance, but even then it required the industrial revolution to give Europe unchallenged supremacy over the Islamic world.

You say they did not stand in the way of these advances, I say they weren't strong enough at that time to block it, but basically we agree.

[Ponce Cuba]

http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/history/astrlab2.JPG Astrolab (dated 9th century): This was for measuring the altitude of heavenly bodies above the horizon, and so determining (among other things) the time of day or night. Readings are taken by means of rotatable alidade, a diametrical rule with sights.
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I believe that this one was found in an old wreck in the ocean around the area of or at the base of "El Faro" in Alexandria...... maybe I am wrong but it sure looks like it.

[WAoG]

Well, I think it perhaps simplistic to think we invaded anyone just because we are greater than them. Since when is a nation going to war to defend itself or its interests or to secure resources (oil) unusual? Is it wrong? Well, not necessarily. But if it comes down to us or them, why do you have to feel guilty for choosing "us"?

In this day with nuclear weapons a real entity, why is wrong to feel threatened when Iran states they are going to make one and use it? Isn't that a threat?

Now, for your China analogy. Is it wrong for them to invade us? Maybe, maybe not. What if they felt it was in their vital interests? Of course I am going to say its wrong, but they may not feel that way? Shouldn't we do everything possible to defend against just such a scenario including securing our access to resources - i.e. oil? If this war is just a cover for securing our oil access, and all of the WMD/terrorism stuff is all just made up, this war may still be justified if it leads to secure access to resources for us and makes us strong enough to prevent or defeat a threat from China or others. Weakening ourselves, or not building up our military, or depriving ourselves of cheap resources may be enough to ENCOURAGE another country to invade or attack us. Stealing and Murder are never right or good.

[hoarder]

Stealing and Murder are never right or good.Sometimes it is of strategic value...but not in this case as our neocon thinks. War isn't really about right or good, it's about winning or surviving.