What brought the towers down???

[RealityCheck]

The by-product of a thermite reaction is molten iron, which was found at the WTC.

As was the sulfur residue/by product.

[Didga]

As was the sulfur residue/by product.

Thermate-TH3 is a mixture of thermite and pyrotechnic additives which have been found to be superior to standard thermite for incendiary purposes. Its composition by weight is generally thermite 68.7%, barium nitrate 29.0%, sulphur 2.0% and binder 0.3%.

[runcible]

How do you get sulfur from a thermite reaction? An aluminum soda can and some steel wool is all the raw ingredients needed to make thermite.

Also, why would there be molten metal if thermite was used to cut the beams? Wouldn't any melted metal from a thermite charge have cooled by the time the WTC debris were removed? Cutting a beam takes a lot less energy than melting a beam.

[Didga]

How do you get sulfur from a thermite reaction? An aluminum soda can and some steel wool is all the raw ingredients needed to make thermite.

Also, why would there be molten metal if thermite was used to cut the beams? Wouldn't any melted metal from a thermite charge have cooled by the time the WTC debris were removed? Cutting a beam takes a lot less energy than melting a beam.

The sulfur is added to increase the effectiveness of the thermite

Some beams featured solidified slag some thermite cutter charges and were fouind in the debris. Melted or partially melted beams were found 4,5 and 6 floors underground weeks later. This indicates thermite cutter charges on some beams in the tower but large thermite charges in the basement.

[Halophyte]

... some thermite cutter charges and were fouind in the debris.

I'd like to see those cutting charges they found in the debris.

Do you have a link to the pictures of the cutting charges ?

[Didga]

Sry Halo its a typo a bit

Some beams featured solidified slag some thermite cutter charges and were fouind in the debris. Melted or partially melted beams were found 4,5 and 6 floors underground weeks later. This indicates thermite cutter charges on some beams in the tower but large thermite charges in the basement.

Should read

Some beams featuring solidified slag from thermite cutter charges were found in the debris.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/april2006/240406thermite1.jpg


Melted or partially melted beams were found 4,5 and 6 floors underground weeks later. This indicates thermite cutter charges on some beams in the tower but large thermite charges in the basement.

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/hotSlag.jpg

[runcible]

Could someone please show me a similar picture of molten metal from a building that everyone agrees has been demolished?

[Halophyte]

Sry Halo its a typo a bit



Should read



http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/april2006/240406thermite1.jpg




http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/hotSlag.jpg


Now here comes that nagging logic again, if "cutting charges" were detonated at basement level (like Large Sarge, Bigjon and other large/big CT enthusiast parrot), why did the towers fall from top down instead of having the footings cut from underneath, like a typical demolition collapse ?

Doesn't add up.


Know what a BTU is ? It's the mechanical energy required to raise one pound of water one degree F.

Know what the weight of the towers were ? How much mechanical force of compression is required to raise the temperature of a steel column that supports the tower ?

Know what drop forging is ?




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[bigjon]

Hell, it's halo, the official CT's best supporter, still beating the drum for the looniest CONspiracy Theory.

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20030811.htm

[Halophyte]

Dang, you're right BJ, the beams were cut !

Those pics of all that steel slag prove it !

You're a bloody genius ...




Rescue workers cut through steel beams lodged in the ruins of the World Trade Center. (BP) Photo by Jim Veneman

Welders work through the night, cutting through steel sections of the remains of the World Trade Center in New York. (By Louis Lanzano, AP)

NY, October 9, 2001 -- Workers suspended from a crane work to cut through the remaining steel structure left standing at the site of the collapsed World Trade Center.Photo by Andrea Booher/ FEMA News Photo

Exterior face beams that had to be cut up and removed. (World News Report)

Steel workers cut the beams from Tower 7 which was part of the the Twin Towers complex in New York City, Sunday Sept. 16 2001. Rescue worker and contstruction workers are continuing to clear debris from last Tuesday's terrorist attack that destroyed the Twin Towers. (AP Photo by Paul Chiasson/CP)


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[bigjon]

Yep you're right.

The workers using oxyacetylene torches cut the steel for removal. As you well know oxyacetylene creates almost no slag because the process burns the steel instead of melting it.

[Halophyte]

Yep you're right.

The workers using oxyacetylene torches cut the steel for removal. As you well know oxyacetylene creates almost no slag because the process burns the steel instead of melting it.

Boy, are you full of it ...

Ever use a cutting torch before ? The thicker the steel the more slag.

They ain't cuttin sheetmetal dude. What do you think a slag-hammer is for ?

Why do you think a welder keep grinders handy while they're cutting ?

Here's a hint; to clean the slag away from the cut. Unless he's cutting scrap, just like at the WTC.

It's slag city ...


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[bigjon]

Boy, are you full of it ...

Ever use a cutting torch before ? The thicker the steel the more slag.

They ain't cuttin sheetmetal dude. Why do you think a welder keeps a grinder handy while he's cutting ?

Here's a hint; to clean the slag away from the cut. Unless he's cutting scrap, just like at the WTC.

It's slag city ...


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I've only used one to cut angle iron, but have watched the local blacksmith cut 2 - 3 inch steel and that looked pretty clean to me.

And of course if anyone analysed that steel they wouldn't find thermite/thermate.

[Halophyte]

I'll toss in a few beer cans next time I'm scrappin and send the slag to Doc Jones ...

[runcible]

Halophyte, you're my hero.

What page did you get those pictures from? I want to bookmark it. :D

As for the slag issue, if I'm feeling adventurous tomorrow, I'll try to find some leafsprings that were cut down to fit in another vehicle. They are pretty thin (pickup leaf thickness), but they have a bit of slag.

[Large Sarge]

Halophyte, you're my hero..

if that is true, you really need to get out a little more, meet some more folks.

a person who refuses to admit they are wrong in the face of mountains of evidence against their position is not someone to worship or follow, this person will blindly march right off a cliff with no thoughts of turning around before it is to late.

[runcible]

a person who refuses to admit they are wrong in the face of mountains of evidence against their position is not someone to worship or follow, this person will blindly march right off a cliff with no thoughts of turning around before it is to late.

I'm not sure how asking "could demolition works have cut that beam?" is wrong, nor am I sure how finding evidence that demolition workers did cut beams is wrong.

But perhaps that's why I find most of the popular 9/11 "conspiracy theories" to be unlikely.

[Large Sarge]

I'm not sure how asking "could demolition works have cut that beam?" is wrong, nor am I sure how finding evidence that demolition workers did cut beams is wrong.

But perhaps that's why I find most of the popular 9/11 "conspiracy theories" to be unlikely.

like ignoring all those "puts" placed on the airlines mere days before.

the molten metal in the foundations visible from space 6-8 weeks afterwards.

like mayor willie brown getting a phone call from Condi Rices office to cancel his scheduled trip.

Shrub reading about the pet goat for 15 minutes while we were supposedly under attack.

WTC 7???

all the pentagon generals cancelling trips just prior to 9/11

We have a peer reviewed scientific paper that says it is impossible without demolition, it still stands today.

no modern skyscrpaer has ever fallen from fire, and that day we get 3 of them

the precise "in the footprint" fall of all 3 buildings.

the speed of collapse, which would mean virtually no resistance from all the undamaged floors (90+ floors of perfectly good building, w/ 47 super steel beams which were 47 stories high)

Etc Etc

we could make a list 4 pages long of irregularities and major flaws in the official story, and it would not be enough for some of you folks.

Halo has an easy out, he does not want to admit he was wrong and be liable to cough up 1000 ounces of silver, so he pretends this charade is real.

if you are not liable for 1000 ounces of silver, and you persist in believing the govt fairy tale., well......

[runcible]

I'll address just a few of these.

the molten metal in the foundations visible from space 6-8 weeks afterwards.

I'd like the citation for "molten metals" being seen from space. I'd also like a source for the "molten metal" picture, but I doubt anyone knows where it came from.

However, considering that earth observation satellites have sub-meter resoultions, I would expect that the WTC sites were visible from space, including fires.

like mayor willie brown getting a phone call from Condi Rices office to cancel his scheduled trip.

Willie Brown says that the information came from "my security people at the airport." I'm not sure where you are coming up with this Condi Rice story.

Perhaps you should check your sources.

the precise "in the footprint" fall of all 3 buildings.

Well, "in", "around", and basically "all over the WTC block". But I guess you didn't check the photos afterwords. But yah, the basic direction was down, if you want to quibble. How do you think tall skyscrapers collapse? They don't fall over like a tree, unless you are watching Loony Toons or Godzilla movies.

See, here's the problem with the popular conspiracies: None of you do your homework. It is easy to find photos of the aftermath of the WTC, but you don't.

For example, he's a nice picture from 2 days after the attacks, showing most of the wreckage:

Lookie! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_Trade_Center_Site_After_9-11_Attacks_With_Original_Building_Locations.jpg)

"In their footprints", huh?

(And this post is probably a waste of my time. I really don't have the time for this conspiracy crap.)

[Blue_pill_envy]

If only there weren't sooooooo much proof......


This is a NASA thermal image taken Sept 16,2001 of ground zero.
The coolest indicated area is 801 degrees F........that's above the maximum free air burn temp of jet fuel......but you know that.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16209&stc=1&d=1151455897


Red-hot, semi-molten metal pulled from the base of WTC building 7 in late October, 6 full weeks after it collapsed

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16210&stc=1&d=1151455897

..

[runcible]

If only there weren't sooooooo much proof......


This is a NASA thermal image taken Sept 16,2001 of ground zero.
The coolest indicated area is 801 degrees F........that's above the maximum free air burn temp of jet fuel......but you know that.[/url]attachment.php?attachmentid=16210&stc=1&d=1151455897[/url]

Again, please, source for the image? I'd like to see a temperature gradient scale. This shouldn't be hard, should it?

Updated: Ne'ermind, found it. (Quibble: Coolest area is 700K, which is 800.33F, not 801F, unless you do some funky rounding.)

That being said, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. Did the PTB put the WTC in a giant kiln?

Updated: Cool, the source of the picture has a few more from the same time. Hmmm, have you wondered *where* Point H is exactly? I'm wondering where you are going with this.

[gpond]

Again, please, source for the image? I'd like to see a temperature gradient scale. This shouldn't be hard, should it?

That being said, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. Did the PTB put the WTC in a giant kiln?
No. Jet fuel and tables and chairs burning did it. Is that a crazy idea?

[runcible]

No. Jet fuel and tables and chairs burning did it. Is that a crazy idea?

Well, I was thinking burning debris.

A lot of conspiracy theorists seem to think that demolition charges were used, but those don't melt support columns, they cut through them with a shockwave.

But I guess all of us are wrong, because Blue Pill Envy thinks that the 800F+ heat at the wreckage of WTC #4 is significant.

(Yep, AFAICT, Point H is WTC #4!)

[gpond]

Well, I was thinking burning debris.
That is some kick-ass debris. I think there is another explanation and I wish there had been a real investigation.

[azxcvbnm321]

Every crime has a motive. What is the motive behind the 9/11 attacks? By examining the motive of 9/11 we can find out the truth behind 9/11, namely that terrorists who want Sharia Law to be spread around the world attacked the United States and destroyed the WTC.

The conspiracy view lacks any motive and therefore cannot be taken seriously. Veritas said that the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Then why destroy the towers if not to make war? What about the continuing terrorism that Veritas denies has anything to do with the initial attack on the United States?

You see, the attacks ONLY make sense if seen from the view that Al-Queda is real and attacked the United States (also called the Great Satan) in the spirit of Jihad. Of course this was stupid and Al-Queda is paying the price, but none the less everything makes sense if taken from that viewpoint. Any other view lacks motive, which we know is necessary to solve a crime and a viewpoint with motive is necessarily better than one without.

[Large Sarge]

Every crime has a motive. What is the motive behind the 9/11 attacks? By examining the motive of 9/11 we can find out the truth behind 9/11, namely that terrorists who want Sharia Law to be spread around the world attacked the United States and destroyed the WTC.

The conspiracy view lacks any motive and therefore cannot be taken seriously. Veritas said that the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Then why destroy the towers if not to make war? What about the continuing terrorism that Veritas denies has anything to do with the initial attack on the United States?

You see, the attacks ONLY make sense if seen from the view that Al-Queda is real and attacked the United States (also called the Great Satan) in the spirit of Jihad. Of course this was stupid and Al-Queda is paying the price, but none the less everything makes sense if taken from that viewpoint. Any other view lacks motive, which we know is necessary to solve a crime and a viewpoint with motive is necessarily better than one without.


How about theft & greed for a motive?.

Billions in Gold bullion in the basement vaults. Rampant insider trading. an investigation was closing in on all the banks and financial/investment groups on wall street, which conveniently had all their files destroyed on 9/11

try this thread, a lot of info came out about the financial issues involved.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=38062&highlight=john+oneill

[Large Sarge]

I would only add that operation northwoods, totally incompetent "Terrorist pilots" (barely able to circle a cessna around an airfield), NORAD standing down

[Halophyte]

Hey Sarge, you gotta slow learning curve ?

NORAD did not "stand down". It was effectively nutralized by legislative/exect order placing it directly under Rummy's incompetent whereabouts but NORAD did not "stand down".

If anyone's to blame it's Rumsfeld.

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[gpond]

If anyone's to blame it's Rumsfeld.
You are not all the way there yet, but you are getting closer. Congratulations on your new revelation. :rose:

[RickyJ]

Every crime has a motive. What is the motive behind the 9/11 attacks?
There is more than one motive for the elite's attack on 9/11 carried out by elements of the USA government. The biggest motive is more control for the elite via turning the USA into a police state through the unconstitutional, already written well in advance of 9/11, Patriot Act. The second biggest motive is defending Israel from its Arab neighbors. The third biggest motive is profit, massive amounts of money to the puppets who carried out the elite's will.