What brought the towers down???

[gpond]

Yes, what I want to know is the truth.
Yes. I believe you!

Just keep looking at the evidence. Not the possibilities, not the probabilities, but the evidence.

Only the actual evidence will lead us towards the truth.

Think David Copperfield, for real! The probable does not apply to a magic trick. That is their whole bag.

[Reformed Idealist]

I don't think that "easier to grasp" should be the final criteria. Do you?

You agreed that we should/could have an investigation. I like that.

I like that you are thinking!

OK, "easier to grasp" is perhaps an inaccurate phrase. Let's call it the explanation should have internal cohesion, where all aspects - motive, execution, evidence all dovetail into one global explanation -- call it an "internal elegance". Most theories that are correct not only explain phenomena in an elegant "aha" type of way, they also are able to explain any new information that may come along and not have to be modified to fit it in. All of these theories totally lack this.

[AMforPM]

Since investigation is actively blocked it is pretty hard to gather data. Fairly recently the NYC Fire Chief said he did not buy the official story and he was shut up very quickly.

In the OKC bombing one cop who was not giving up on real investigation committed 'suicide' on his way to turn over evidence by stabbing himself a bunch of times with marks of being tied up on his body. Right.

So we get data in bits. What critical posts were filled by Bush right before 9-11? lessee, the guy who gives the go signal to launch fighters to shoot down hijacked planes, the WTC security chief, for starters. That FBI whistleblower they have not killed but they keep sealing the transcripts as she tries to get the one FBI guy who blocked the forewarning exposed. He got a promotion.

Some of the suspect arabs trained in Florida. What data was in the Florida tabloid that got US military anthrax when Dem congress leadership got it and select major media? Once the anthrax was ID'd by somebody honest as US military anthrax that story faded away.

Then after Osama says he has nothing to do with it, we get new Osama tapes strategically released... bad forgeries, fatty osama, funky osama.

The money trail to the stocks and gold were not followed. Anything useful is blocked. And the physical evidence shipped overseas.

Cheney's hijack war games that day that took over radar and would have prevented some honest hero from hotdogging in has been admitted. There is a lot.

And reformed, it isn't your opinions that make me not bother sometimes, it is the laziness-- you ask others to do your research for you while you type opinions and don't do research. You are as entitled to ignorant as informed opinion, but if you don't look into things yourself, I do not see how you can form anything but ignorant opinions.

[dissident]

explosives. To me this is a no brainer.

[bigjon]

Just to keep going. Do you think the past 25 years of Islamic terrorism is also part of the plot of 9-11? The American Embassy in Iran all the way to Beirut, the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole, and on and on and continuing with Madrid and London and Bali -- this is all just manufactured to provide a basis for a motive? Islam just has nothing to do with all of this. Hmmm.

Since none of these events seems to have been of any benefit to the Arabs I would ask you to consider those who have benefited, Israel and big gov agencies.

Remember that the Israeli's intelligence agencies motto is "by deception thou shalt do war" and look at what they did to the USS Liberty and how complicit our gov was at covering up their vile treachery.

http://www.ussliberty.org/

AMERICAN LEADERS SUPPORT USS Liberty SURVIVORS

The Israeli government, the AntiDefamation League, and
certain notorious apologists for Israel insist that the attack was
a tragic accident and that the US government accepts that assertion.
Not so. Virtually every knowledgeable American official with
the lone exception of Robert McNamara is on public record
calling the attack deliberate and the Israeli story untrue.
Here are a few of those American leaders.





<H3> "I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous " (http://www.ussliberty.org/rusk.htm)
-- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk</H3>




<H3> "...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty." (http://www.ussliberty.org/helmstext.htm)
-- CIA Director Richard Helms</H3>




<H3> "I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship." (http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06.htm)
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby</H3>




<H3> "That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable (http://www.ussliberty.org/cliffor2.htm)"
-- Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson</H3>




<H3> "The highest officials of the [Johnson] administration, including the President, believed it 'inconceivable' that Israel's 'skilled' defense forces could have committed such a gross error." (http://tinyurl.com/c52ne)
-- Lyndon Johnson's biographer Robert Dallek in Flawed Giant, Oxford University Press, 1998, pp. 430-31)</H3>





<H3> "A nice whitewash for a group of ignorant, stupid and inept [expletive deleted]." (http://www.ussliberty.org/tordella.htm)
-- Handwritten note of August 26, 1967, by NSA Deputy Director Louis W. Tordella reacting to the Israeli court decision exonerating Israelis of blame for the Liberty attack.</H3>




<H3> "Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers.
-- Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor</H3>




<H3> "The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack...was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.... It was our shared belief. . .that the attack. . .could not possibly have been an accident.... I am certain that the Israeli pilots [and] their superiors. . .were well aware that the ship was American." (http://www.ussliberty.org/bostondeclaration.pdf)
-- Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, US Navy (retired), senior legal counsel to the US Navy Court of Inquiry</H3>




<H3> That the attack was deliberate "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the National Security Agency (http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06-3.htm)
-- Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom (http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill) on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval Institute Proceedings</H3>




<H3> <A href="http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06-3.htm">Former NSA/CIA Director Admiral Bobby Inman "flatly rejected" the Cristol/Israeli claims that the attack was an accident
-- 5 March 2003 interview for Naval Institute Proceedings</H3> (http://goldismoney.info/forums/)




<H3> <A href="http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06.htm">Of four former NSA/CIA seniors with inside knowledge, none was aware of any agency official who dissented from the position that the attack was deliberate
-- David Walsh, writing in Naval Institute Proceedings</H3> (http://goldismoney.info/forums/)




<H3> "It appears to me that it was not a pure case of mistaken identity." (http://www.ussliberty.org/supporters.htm)
-- Captain William L. McGonagle, Commanding Officer, USS Liberty, speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, June 8, 1997</H3>



<H3> "To suggest that they [the IDF] couldn't identify the ship is ... ridiculous. ... Anybody who could not identify the Liberty could not tell the difference between the White House and the Washington Monument."
-- Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, quoted in The Washington Post, June 15, 1991, p. 14</H3>




More remarks by knowledgeable American leaders (http://www.ussliberty.org/supporters.htm)

[Reformed Idealist]

Since none of these events seems to have been of any benefit to the Arabs I would ask you to consider those who have benefited, Israel and big gov agencies.



No benefit? I guess you could say that? This is called asymmetric warfare and they have accomplished alot over the past 25 years. Plus, high oil prices, etc. Perhaps you don't understand their stated goals. They aren't just going to load into Higgins boats and land on the shore of the Potomac.

As for the assertion that I don't do research. I'm sorry, but I really don't consider reading conspiracy theories on websites with such claims as some of the 19 hijackers are still alive and about little puffs of smoke and the such as doing research. What would you have me do? Watch more videos. You're right though, I haven't interviewed anyone or collected any forensic evidence. And if you don't want to bother, then don't

[Ash_Williams]

The official theory isn't able to explain all new evidence that comes around. If it was, the threads on this subject would be much shorter and there wouldn't be a new one on here three times a week.

[Large Sarge]

No benefit? I guess you could say that? This is called asymmetric warfare and they have accomplished alot over the past 25 years. Plus, high oil prices, etc. Perhaps you don't understand their stated goals. They aren't just going to load into Higgins boats and land on the shore of the Potomac.


perhaps you could offer some of these goals, I am curious....

unlike Halo, you seem to offer reasonable thought out responses....

"What are the goals of the arabs"? In your opinion

[Reformed Idealist]

perhaps you could offer some of these goals, I am curious....

unlike Halo, you seem to offer reasonable thought out responses....

"What are the goals of the arabs"? In your opinion

The goals of a portion of the Muslims, and they aren't all Arabs, is to gain power in as many countries as possible to create a haven for their practice of extreme Islam which could then be imposed on even those who don't wish to have anything to do with it. This goal would include the United States. Haven't accomplished anything? They are already here prepping us. A school district in MN just banned little school kids from drawing stick figures because this offends Muslims. We are restricting our press to not show cartoons because it would offend Muslims (but our press is free to offend Muslims by showing Abu Ghraib photos all they want)

What they want is for the majority of Americans to get tired of terror and end up electing someone who would conciliate, to appease them, which would then only encourage more aggression. A few more setbacks, a few more swing voters and then they would get John Kerry in there to play nicey nicey with them. That is just what they want.

Don't think this works? Have you visited Egypt lately? I visited in the early 90's and recently - dramatic differences. Christians have always been persecuted there (including modern day crucifixions!) but they used to be semi tolerated as long as they just kept quiet. Now they are openly persecuted. The Coptic Pope has been threatened with death! Women are no longer allowed to go outside without complete covering (there was none of this 15 years ago). These changes have been brought about by TERROR. Murder, bombings, threats, beatings. I believe there was someone about 70 years ago that knew all about the techniques and strategies for controlling a population and his name was Adoph Hitler. Have you read Mein Kampf, the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich? Others? Pretty plain Hitler knew all about terror and used it to suppress anyone who might oppose his views -- and used it even before the world really knew what was going on.

Did you see what happened in Spain after the train bombings - in goes an appeaser, but they are still dealing with terror threats despite being a good little boy.

Without U.S. intervention, where would Afghanistan be today? Would women go to school or receive medical care or vote?

Now I am not against anyone practicing their religion, even if it totally opposed to what I believe. But what if their religion instructed them to perform actions that impair my freedom or my life? Are they still free to practice that religion without restriction? Could I practice my religion if it meant that level of coercion.

Why now? Why do this at all? Well, the time is ripe, my friend. There are looming energy crises and they have all the oil. The is an active 5th column in the U.S. that cripples our ability to see this battle through and to what is necessary. Former presidents, even - yes you Mr. Carter. The seeds are being sown and continue to be sown and yet many chose or refuse to even look at it due to thieir Peter Pan view of human nature. They think these terrorists aren't evil, they are just misunderstood and "offended" otherwise they would be good and we would all get along in one happy, pluralistic society.

They are growing faster than us. Their economies have strengthened. The opposition is morally weakened, our financial system is brittle. They view the West as near the tipping point and now is the time to act. The time to act wasn't 10,25 years ago, but now.

Even if 9-11 was entirely the fabrication of some type of conspiracy de jour, that doesn't change these facts and doesn't change what we have to do as a nation to defend our way of life.

I have done a lot to settle these questions in my mind and I continue to think and ponder. I watched part of the video and will watch more.

By the way, where can I get a helicopter that can collapse a hundred story building in 3 seconds with little flashes of light?

[Halophyte]

I find it interesting that they rely on structural engineers to build these skyscrapers but refuse to ask them to back their conspiracy theories.

Wonder why ...

.

[Paranoid Pariah]

Awesome thread...it's ashame that there is a lot of bickering about proving anything other than that the official story could not be true. It's like arguing over the make of tires that were on the car driving Kennedy when he was assassinated. As concerned American's, I think all we need to do is to show that the possibility of the towers falling as a result of fire is impossible and the burden of proof falls then on the people who are wanting us to believe otherwise. To those who do believe it was fire that took down the towers (leaving the WTC7 out of it), I would love to see another example of when this has occurred in history. You don't need to be an expert on physics to be able to do logical mathematic estimations. Simply put, steel melts at a temperature of 2,777 degrees Fahrenheit, but jet fuel burns at only 1,517 degrees F. No melted steel, no collapsed towers.

http://911review.com/coverup/fantasy/melting.html

In this website, all the "official story" folk are stating that it was the intense heat and they are proposing statements like: "It was the fire that killed the buildings. There's nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning." -aid structural engineer Chris Wise.

I want to know how then, if nothing could survive, how do you explain this?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc1hole1.html

I don't see how the heat was so intense that it brought the towers down, but yet a woman, obviously still alive, is standing in the hole and TOUCHING the columns! Please help me to understand what I am missing. I don't think this is a conspiracy theory at all.

The very word conspiracy theory is a perverted semantic used as a means to discredit and dehumanize concerned citizens. We are not all sitting at home with tin foil hats on. We LOVE this country. Our genuine concern is generated out of pure patriotism. Oligarchies are running our monetary system as they did when true Patriots stood up and ran them out of here during the Revolutionary war and it is only unpatriotic to not stand up and point out these hideous discrepancies now. Please take some time and do a google search for P2OG or PNAC and you will see the engineering behind it. Not from some conspiracy nut, but from the inside. I know it's a hard thing to come to grips with. I know it feels as if you are being traitorous to accept the possibility of prior knowledge or even involvement, but it's really not. America is about free thinking and to be a free thinker one must look at things from a 365 degree perspective, not just a black and white, democrat or republican, for us or against us point of view. It's vital that we do this so that we can have a solid grasp on reality. I love all Americans, but I also love all human beings. Everyone is someones Father, Brother, Sister, Grandparent, etc...even those that don't agree with our views or opinions, politically or philosophically. I think those of us who are truly awake and see what's really happening, want others to see it because we care, not because we want to win in some silly debate. When it comes to back and forth fighting over silly semantics, we all lose.

[Large Sarge]

The goals of a portion of the Muslims, and they aren't all Arabs, is to gain power in as many countries as possible to create a haven for their practice of extreme Islam which could then be imposed on even those who don't wish to have anything to do with it. This goal would include the United States. Haven't accomplished anything? They are already here prepping us. A school district in MN just banned little school kids from drawing stick figures because this offends Muslims. We are restricting our press to not show cartoons because it would offend Muslims (but our press is free to offend Muslims by showing Abu Ghraib photos all they want)


Well, considering the U.S. has troops in 140+ countries around the world, I think perhaps we should start sweeping our own side of the street before we go looking at our neighbors....

Regarding Govt run schools, I suggest you do a search on what John gatto has to say about them... what their real intent was.

Freedom of the press has limits in regards to decency, most folks agree to this, pornography, extreme violence, etc have no place under the umbrella "Freedom of the press"
an easy way out was to offer an apology for the offensive pictures/cartoons. "No Harm No Foul"



What they want is for the majority of Americans to get tired of terror and end up electing someone who would conciliate, to appease them, which would then only encourage more aggression. A few more setbacks, a few more swing voters and then they would get John Kerry in there to play nicey nicey with them. That is just what they want.


To appease them? How by bringing all the troops home from all foreign countries (muslim included), is that appeasement, conciliation, by respecting our own border?
I think you mis-understand where the United States border is....


Don't think this works? Have you visited Egypt lately? I visited in the early 90's and recently - dramatic differences. Christians have always been persecuted there (including modern day crucifixions!) but they used to be semi tolerated as long as they just kept quiet. Now they are openly persecuted. The Coptic Pope has been threatened with death! Women are no longer allowed to go outside without complete covering (there was none of this 15 years ago). These changes have been brought about by TERROR. Murder, bombings, threats, beatings. I believe there was someone about 70 years ago that knew all about the techniques and strategies for controlling a population and his name was Adoph Hitler. Have you read Mein Kampf, the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich? Others? Pretty plain Hitler knew all about terror and used it to suppress anyone who might oppose his views -- and used it even before the world really knew what was going on.

Egypt, Once again we see an example outside the U.S.
How do events in egypt effect events here in the U.S.?
perhaps you ar eone of those people who believe that even though Egypt is its own sovereign nation, and well outside the U.S. border, that if trouble arises there, we need to send in the troops....
once agian we come across the issue of understanding where and what a border really is...
"None of our business" (at least not U.S> Govt Business), I encourage you to write as many personal checks to help persecuted people whereever you find them... just do not send tax dollars, troops, or govt aid....


Did you see what happened in Spain after the train bombings - in goes an appeaser, but they are still dealing with terror threats despite being a good little boy.

Without U.S. intervention, where would Afghanistan be today? Would women go to school or receive medical care or vote?

Now I am not against anyone practicing their religion, even if it totally opposed to what I believe. But what if their religion instructed them to perform actions that impair my freedom or my life? Are they still free to practice that religion without restriction? Could I practice my religion if it meant that level of coercion.

Why now? Why do this at all? Well, the time is ripe, my friend. There are looming energy crises and they have all the oil. The is an active 5th column in the U.S. that cripples our ability to see this battle through and to what is necessary. Former presidents, even - yes you Mr. Carter. The seeds are being sown and continue to be sown and yet many chose or refuse to even look at it due to thieir Peter Pan view of human nature. They think these terrorists aren't evil, they are just misunderstood and "offended" otherwise they would be good and we would all get along in one happy, pluralistic society.

They are growing faster than us. Their economies have strengthened. The opposition is morally weakened, our financial system is brittle. They view the West as near the tipping point and now is the time to act. The time to act wasn't 10,25 years ago, but now.

Even if 9-11 was entirely the fabrication of some type of conspiracy de jour, that doesn't change these facts and doesn't change what we have to do as a nation to defend our way of life.

I have done a lot to settle these questions in my mind and I continue to think and ponder. I watched part of the video and will watch more.

By the way, where can I get a helicopter that can collapse a hundred story building in 3 seconds with little flashes of light?

Spain, Afghanistan? Border problems again....(interfering in other nations)
Regarding Afghanistan, all the reports I have (real reports, not Fox news), is that afghanistan is a disaster area... much worse than prior to the invasion, that is why Opium production is so high, because "no one is in control now"

you are correct, Most of the oil is under the middle east, and we are alienating all of them (Venezuela included)

These people cannot drink the oil, they must sell it to someone....

So doe sit seem wise to try and go in and rob someone by gun point of their merchandise? or to peacefully come to a voluntary transaction....?

Your wife wants some earrings, a little out of your price range, do you go and hold up the jewelry store?

is that your energy solution?

"hold up the whole middle east"

"Us versus them" is all through your post...

Yet you completely ignore "our Border"

[Halophyte]

@Reformed Idealist

I see they got you bickering about off topic issues instead of the "Explosives".

It's a common tactic.


.

[Reformed Idealist]

Well, considering the U.S. has troops in 140+ countries around the world, I think perhaps we should start sweeping our own side of the street before we go looking at our neighbors....

Regarding Govt run schools, I suggest you do a search on what John gatto has to say about them... what their real intent was.

Freedom of the press has limits in regards to decency, most folks agree to this, pornography, extreme violence, etc have no place under the umbrella "Freedom of the press"
an easy way out was to offer an apology for the offensive pictures/cartoons. "No Harm No Foul"




To appease them? How by bringing all the troops home from all foreign countries (muslim included), is that appeasement, conciliation, by respecting our own border?
I think you mis-understand where the United States border is....


Egypt, Once again we see an example outside the U.S.
How do events in egypt effect events here in the U.S.?
perhaps you ar eone of those people who believe that even though Egypt is its own sovereign nation, and well outside the U.S. border, that if trouble arises there, we need to send in the troops....
once agian we come across the issue of understanding where and what a border really is...
"None of our business" (at least not U.S> Govt Business), I encourage you to write as many personal checks to help persecuted people whereever you find them... just do not send tax dollars, troops, or govt aid....



Spain, Afghanistan? Border problems again....(interfering in other nations)
Regarding Afghanistan, all the reports I have (real reports, not Fox news), is that afghanistan is a disaster area... much worse than prior to the invasion, that is why Opium production is so high, because "no one is in control now"

you are correct, Most of the oil is under the middle east, and we are alienating all of them (Venezuela included)

These people cannot drink the oil, they must sell it to someone....

So doe sit seem wise to try and go in and rob someone by gun point of their merchandise? or to peacefully come to a voluntary transaction....?

Your wife wants some earrings, a little out of your price range, do you go and hold up the jewelry store?

is that your energy solution?

"hold up the whole middle east"

"Us versus them" is all through your post...

Yet you completely ignore "our Border"

Oh yes, here we go again - the armed porcupine/Switzerland theory of self defense. Let's do ourselves a favor and not rehash that one all over. For those who don't know what I'm talking about - it's on a semi-recent thread.

Minding your own business while your enemy gathers strength - a time honored success story if I've ever heard one. 1930's France, 1930's England, 1930's U.S.A. all very successfully pulled that one off. Too bad they all missed their 25 chances at stopping Hitler before it was too late.

Tired of WWII? It doesn't get any better after WWII. Many countries would not be where they were today and we would have many fewer allies if all we did was sit back and watch them either get gobbled up by the U.S.S.R. or communist China or watched them undergo a coup/power change due to the freedom to act by our enemies as they intervene in who know how many other countries. Don't think they had any deterrents - they wouldn't have had if we stripped our military down and armed porcupines instead.

This would have led to our decline in power - decline in our standard of living - higher oil price for us - and greater armed threats closer to our border. I suppose you would have been OK with the Soviets putting nuclear missiles in Cuba? Again not our borders, so who cares, right?

I sure wish I had your view of human nature - that is everyone is just cheery, happy and of course, good, without an evil bone in their body. If it wasn't for those pesky Americans, who make us act badly, of course. America is just the root of all the problems in the world, huh? Nice one, sounds good until you look at the facts.

When you talk about Egypt, etc. as not our problem I guess in your view they can do whatever they want, kill who ever they want, get any weapon they want, conspire against us all they want, ally with our enemies all they want, but unless they actually set foot in our country, we should just ignore it.

According to you, if the police get a tip that someone is conspiring to murder someone, they should just sit on their hands until the guy is actually dead, because up until that point, there was no crime and it wasn't their business to get involved. Brilliant!

[Reformed Idealist]

@Reformed Idealist

I see they got you bickering about off topic issues instead of the "Explosives".

It's a common tactic.


.

Yes, but all of this is like raw meat to a hungry wolf - impossible to resist!

Explosives? Have you seen their video? Explosives weren't necessary. They have tiny attack helicopters that blew up the WTC with tiny flashes of light! Or were those reflections, I don't know, but if there ever was convincing proof of a 9-11 conspiracy I didn't believe until I saw those light flashes! Imagine, helicopters in NYC during a major news event. How suspicious!

[Elijah]

Just finished skimming through all the pages of posts before voting. I'm very new to this forum, so I'm taking my time learning who is who and what their belief system is. Won't say how I voted but I was very surprised at the results of the poll! Must be a lot more paranoia then I thought.

[Ponce Cuba]

I forgot how the saying goes but is something like......"so and so you defend yourself to much"??????????? :confused:

This joker "Reformed Idealist" should be called "Reformed Israelist".....who is he trying to fool???????? :y: :y: :y:

Now that I know what he is I won't bother myself with him any longer :bandito:

Elijah?????? your name and words says who you are.

[Halophyte]

Yes, but all of this is like raw meat to a hungry wolf - impossible to resist!

Explosives? Have you seen their video? Explosives weren't necessary. They have tiny attack helicopters that blew up the WTC with tiny flashes of light! Or were those reflections, I don't know, but if there ever was convincing proof of a 9-11 conspiracy I didn't believe until I saw those light flashes! Imagine, helicopters in NYC during a major news event. How suspicious!


Don't worry RI, it will be excused just like the lie about a B-52 hitting the Empire State Building,

and the lie about proof of the "living terrorist",

and the lie about "squib explosives" that show up only AFTER the buildings begin to fall,

and the lie about structural engineers support the conspiracy theory,

and the dismissal of fireproofing,

and the dismissal of structural engineering studies by real engineers,

and the fact that Dr. Jones was a cold fusion snake oil salesman that almost got caught,

and the fact that Griffin has more knowledge about creatiing religous cults than engineering,

and the fact that Griffin's coffee boy (the one that holds up Griffin's charts during seminars) has no engineering experience or education,

and the ...... etc , etc, etc ,...




EYES WIDE SHUT


.

[Reformed Idealist]

I forgot how the saying goes but is something like......"so and so you defend yourself to much"??????????? :confused:

This joker "Reformed Idealist" should be called "Reformed Israelist".....who is he trying to fool???????? :y: :y: :y:

Now that I know what he is I won't bother myself with him any longer :bandito:

Elijah?????? your name and words says who you are.

OK, we're getting personal, are we? Well, just be aware that I put zero credence in anything you say in fact your posts are so goofy that I am tempted to think the exact opposite based solely on the fact that if you believe something it must be wrong. I have yet to hear you say anything that wasn't just cheerleading for the other posters, or your regular unimaginitve Jew bashing.

Elijah, welcome to the board - I can figure out the way you voted because I knew the vote tally before and after you voted. Don't worry, your secret is safe with me.

[Ponce Cuba]

Well good buddy, I might not have a PhD or a WYZ behind my name, as a matter of fact I don't even have a high school diploma, but as a inventor and a thinker I do think outside the circle as see everything from a different point of view.

Interesting that you say that I am a cheer leader for "the other side", at least now I know that we have a game going.

I may not have a formal education but that doesn't mean that I have to be stupid.

JEW BASHING?????????????? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I have nothing against the people of God and I am talking about the "real" Jews and not those Khazard-Zionists-wanabe Jews trouble makers.:smokin: come back.

[GREENSILVERHORN]

Sometimes the last word must be left for those that are most desperate.

Well, lets just close the case as our leaders have shown us the way.

[Large Sarge]

@Reformed Idealist

I see they got you bickering about off topic issues instead of the "Explosives".

It's a common tactic.


.

Your still trying to figure how to collect the reward from the O.J. trial, so you will have enough money for your fraudulent 1,000 ounce reward offered here...

Catch a red eye to L.A. I heard they spotted the O.J. slasher in Compton....
He was driving a White S.U.V. real slowly....
in fact some folks labeled it a "Slow speed chase"

Hurry Halo, need that reward before enough evidence piles up here to collect that 1,000 ounces that was promised....

"once a fraud....."

[Paranoid Pariah]

Does anyone want to take a stab at explaining this picture?

[Large Sarge]

Does anyone want to take a stab at explaining this picture?

you need to follow the other thread, Halo has announced that it is now due to "Steel Fastener failures" (Both buildings simultaneously)

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=183183&posted=1#post183183

I know it sounds incredible to have 10,000+ steel fasteners give out at the same time.... But these things happen from time to time....

I am sure the victims families will understand...

[Hypertiger]

So far the evidence is pointing to Jewish lightning...Which is what the top wants so that the top does not suffer the consequences...

[keehah]

WTC 7 brought down by explosives, twin towers brought down by planes/fire Vote: 1

I see my vote is still all alone in the category. Does that make me the correct contrarian? :clap2:


....we have answers about other things re 9/11 that I consider to be much more dangerous to the conspirators if only they could get some traction."
I think it's important for readers to fully understand what is said here. Focus on what is obvious, rather than detailed speculation. This would be far more revealing and damaging.

It's not that the controlled demolition may or may not be true, but by focusing on that, we diminish our case and allow the other side to eventually sweep all commentary to the fringe where it will finally be catalogued with other conspiracy theories, not even worth a footnote in history.

That's what these guys are good at.

Many 9/11 skeptics websites argue that the towers were demolished, but 100% proof is probably impossible to obtain. The fact that the planes were allowed to crash into the building is more than enough for an impeachment and conviction. Further details are like arguing whether the Reichstag fire in Germany was burned with gasoline or kerosene -- even while the first camps for dissidents are being completed for use.
http://www.oilempire.us/demolition.html

[Darkside]

Does anyone want to take a stab at explaining this picture?

Well since no one else picked up on it it shows a person standing near the gaping hole of where the plane flew into the tower. So the rational mind will ask, if the fires were so hot that they actually metled the steel (something which never happened before in countless other fires in steel structures) then how could a person be standing there unaffected by extreme heat?

[runcible]

When I first heard the explosives conspiracy, I googled a few stories about demolitions of skyscrapers.

The time it takes to wire up a smaller skyscraper is on the order of weeks. This includes knocking out walls, cutting (weakening) beams, placing the charges and connecting them with wiring. It does not include concealing that this has been done.

Maybe the WTC towers were wired for demolition at construction, but that's a long time to keep a secret, especially when there are tenants remodeling.

The official story mostly makes sense, from what I can tell. Steel is a rather funny material. Years ago (before 9/11) I was really interested in post&beam and log home construction, and I remember seeing a picture of a partially burnt home with wooden beams supporting an I-beam. The wooden beams were charred, but still strong enough to support the I-beam, which had weakened and sagged. It didn't melt (the fire wasn't hot enough for that), it just sagged. AFAICT, the official story was that the beams sagged in the heat, which put too much force on the connections at the ends of the beams, and and the beams tore free, dropping a floor onto the floor below it. Then the floor below it, which all of a sudden had a huge live load placed on it, failed, and the cycle repeated. (I have a nice expensive college textbook that deals with the forces involved. Pre-9/11, so it should be illuminati-free! Actually, I have two textbooks about this -- statics and dynamics.)

The only conspiracy theory that is required for the tower's collapse is a conspiracy on the part of architects and engineers to cut construction costs and maximize floor space in what was one of the tallest inhabitable man-made structures on earth.

PS: Darkside -- if you throw a motolov cocktail through a window, how hot would the frame of the window be?

[thorgrim]

Runcible

What about building 7? No planes hit that building. Watch the footage of the building collapse it is a perfect demo with the crimp in the middle and everything.

Larry Silverman said on a PBS special that they decided to pull building 7 which is a demolition term. Now you just posted that it would take weeks to set up a demolition of even a small skyscraper and I agree with that. So how did they demo it in a matter of hours?

[thorgrim]

Now as for the pancaking theory.

First - The towers fell at almost a free fall speed. Really only a second or two over an actual free fall. I find that hard to believe as there would be significant resistance below.

Second - The towers collapsed straight down. The impact area's of the planes were not symmetrical. Also the fires would not burn in a perfectly symmetrical manner either. I would think that as the collapse started one side of the building would collapse faster than the other causing the upper part of the building to eventually fall off the side and leave part of the building standing. In fact from one of the camera angles you can see this start to happen and then it magically corrects itself and continues in a perfectly symmetrical manner.

Third - All of the scrap steel was shipped off to other countries to be melted down as scrap no independent analysis was allowed.