What brought the towers down???

[Veritas]

Look, if President Bush was behind the attacks, the planes would have missed the World Trade Center and flown into themselves. The people setting the explosives would have accidentally blown themselves up, yet somehow leave the Towers undamaged in the process, and there would be a trail as long as the Great Wall leading to Bush. If Bush planned the attack, the World Trade Center would still be there untouched.

So you are saying that Osama bin Laden is a more competent leader than George W. Bush? This being the case, we have lost the "war on terrorism".

They should really call it the "war on freedom".

[Halophyte]

Halo,

let me remind you of a couple small points.

I have maintained from almost the beginning (PAtColo, and a few other were ahead of me), that it was explosives/ thermite that brought the buildings down.

You and I has a series of debates on it, this thread includes part of one of those debates, your position was "Chaos theory/ equipment failure" (something close to that)

at one point in your attempt to prove you were right, you even offered a reward to anyone who could prove you were wrong (or prove explosives/thermite was used)

if you are going to reply to my questions, please stay on topic.

no one asked about oil or agriculture, we are talking about building collapse, and what caused it


You asked ...


is this statement a "pseudo-admission" that the towers were brought down by explosives/thermite, and not planes, it is so cryptic and vague I can only wonder....



I answered.


Next time don't ask, if you don't want to hear my answer.

[Hypertiger]

Black magic brought the towers down on 911...

[Veritas]

Black magic brought the towers down on 911...

Who was the magician?

[Silverity]

It doesn't matter who is alleged to have done the job. The list of difficulties in pulling off a remote, non-human plane crash is just too mind-boggling to merit serious attention.

Of course, flight 93 suggests it was all very human. Unless you're telling us that was a TPTB job to make everyone think the plane was still being flown by the pilots. That would be the kind of response that stifles debates and reduces 9/11 to religious non-negotiable dogma.

In fact that is what makes the 9/11 conspiracy debate brain-dead. Anytime a serious objection is raised, you guys just come up with "The almost omnipotent TPTB made it just look that way" argument.


Exactly, some people are making the mistake that it was this administration that is responsible, the planning would have had to go back several years, which would pre-date monkey boy and his goons.

It is somewhat confusing to see some people completely out of the loop on this issue on this site, how someone could understand the crimminal enterprise fousted upon us in 1913, the FED and still not understand the criminal element that has been a huge part of this country since 1963, does not make sense.

As for 911, just see who benefited. Would someone create a fake terror event as a pretext for war and further control of the populace, yes they would and they have for thousands of years. The money supply and the Debt has increased over 50% since 911, who benefits?
Project of a New American Century got their Pearl Harbor event, so they could go to war.

Building 7 is the smoking gun, no doubt. If you really are not interested in understanding the facts then you are affraid to know or you have a reason to not care. Just do a little research, pull your head out of the sand, protect yourself and your family and know that the next manufactured terrorist attack will be much worse and will usher in martial law: end game, count on it. Understand what is going on, do not at your and your families peril.

[Silverity]

yep, it is obvious that it is too complicated IF you are trying to justify the official CONspiracy theory.

For those of us who can see who benefitted like the gov agencies and Israel, it is easy to see the how and the why.

Trying to justify the official theory? I was actually addressing the non-official theory which suggests that remote controlled planes were used!

[Silverity]

On the A. Jones show today, Prof. S. Jones confirmed that he and other scientists had obtained samples of steel from the WTCs. They have run tests and concluded beyond any doubt that Thermite (with sulfur added to accelerate the reaction) ) was used to cut the steel on those buildings.

No, I don’t have a link, but I’m sure there will be one soon.



..

Ermm, aside from them just saying so, is thermite an application used in cutting and welding? You know, such as in commercial cutting up the tonnes of scrap girders left after the towers collapsed?

Occam's Razor applies as usual...

[Large Sarge]

Ermm, aside from them just saying so, is thermite an application used in cutting and welding? You know, such as in commercial cutting up the tonnes of scrap girders left after the towers collapsed?

Occam's Razor applies as usual...

Controlled Demolition, who conveniently "Cleaned Up" OKC bombing, and WTC bombing, are known for their unique ability to bring a building down and leave pieces of steel that are less than the length of a semi, meaning that removal process usually involves no cutting torches (which would be preferred over placing thermite charges on a scrap heap), that is why they were able to clean it up so fast, because the parts were already sized for removal

[Large Sarge]

You asked ...






I answered.


Next time don't ask, if you don't want to hear my answer.

???

Whatever halo, I have no one on my ignore list, but you are debateable for being the first, because of your lack of communication or lack of integrity.

[Silverity]

The alternative to the insane remote-control planes theory. The terrorists were real US-hating muslim fanatics but were being unknowingly controlled by the AOTPTB (almost omnipotent TPTB).

This theory obviously requires Al Qaeda to be controlled from the top by the AOTPTB. How does one go about proving this? You don't, it's down to what you want to believe.

The main point against it is the idea that someone like Bin Laden could lead such a double life. It is obvious that a paid up member of the AOTPTB is unlikely to be a devout follower of Allah and the Qu'ran.

Moreover, living a life in a tent on the constant go, doesn't seem a very good reward for being a paid up member of the AOTPTB. Neither is the psychological pressure of looking and acting like a fanatical muslim 24/7 in front of other genuine fanatical muslims.

Ergo, Osama Bin Laden, if anything, is a definite Qu'ran Thumper. Ergo, he is beyond the control of the AOTPTB.


Just because 9/11 was an engineered event by elements within our own government, it does not mean that terrorism does not exist. Terrorist activities have been happening for centuries. The events of 9/11 didn't create global terrorism, but they did divide the world into a "you're either with us or against us" mentality.

The suicide bombers you speak of are not paid off by the CIA to create staged terror attacks. They are legitimate pissed off people who have very little to live for, and a lot more to die for for so they believe). The terrorist acts are legitimate. The problem is that the more we continue this fight and carry into other countries, the more we will see terrorism continue to grow around the world. The old method of problem-reaction-solution is how they play the game. Those in control want to increase their global control. That is the solution. SO they create a problem (9/11), the people give them a desired reaction - which calls for their preplanned solution.

THose arabs blowing themselves up actually believe they are fighting a war on terror and at the same time, it provides legitimacy to our governments war on terror...which only perpetuates the cycle of increased terrorism.

First, our government had a "war on illiteracy" in the 80's - and we saw an increase in illiteracy.

Then our government had a "war on drugs" in the 90's - and we saw an increase in drugs.

Now we are fight a "war on terrorism" and what are we seeing?

[Large Sarge]

The alternative to the insane remote-control planes theory. The terrorists were real US-hating muslim fanatics but were being unknowingly controlled by the AOTPTB (almost omnipotent TPTB).

This theory obviously requires Al Qaeda to be controlled from the top by the AOTPTB. How does one go about proving this? You don't, it's down to what you want to believe.

The main point against it is the idea that someone like Bin Laden could lead such a double life. It is obvious that a paid up member of the AOTPTB is unlikely to be a devout follower of Allah and the Qu'ran.

Moreover, living a life in a tent on the constant go, doesn't seem a very good reward for being a paid up member of the AOTPTB. Neither is the psychological pressure of looking and acting like a fanatical muslim 24/7 in front of other genuine fanatical muslims.

Ergo, Osama Bin Laden, if anything, is a definite Qu'ran Thumper. Ergo, he is beyond the control of the AOTPTB.


You need to watch the movie "Who Killed John O'Neill"
poor format, excellent info. brings in a lot of the loose threads.

CIA funds ISI (pakistani secret service) ISI funds Al Quaeda.

appears there might be some drug connection with 9/11, money laundering and drug running

most folks realize that the CIA runs drugs into the U.S., and has for years.

Well, part of 9/11 was that side of the business as well, sounds like it was a veritable orgy of greed.

[Halophyte]

???

Whatever halo, I have no one on my ignore list, but you are debateable for being the first, because of your lack of communication or lack of integrity.


I'll be your daisy ...


Save me from your lack of cognitive logic.


Pick me !


.

[Blue_pill_envy]

Ermm, aside from them just saying so, is thermite an application used in cutting and welding? You know, such as in commercial cutting up the tonnes of scrap girders left after the towers collapsed?

Occam's Razor applies as usual...

My understanding is it’s used only for cutting purposes…….no welding.
There are links on the net that actually show this stuff in action…….like cutting
through engine blocks of cars.

What I didn’t know was that the addition of sulfur makes this stuff cut even faster.
Pours thru steel like it’s not there.

The other thing I didn’t know was that you can buy it on e-bay…….

The reason why I believed Prof. Jones during the interview, is because
I’ve confirmed he is who he says he is. I’ve read some of his papers. I
know his stuff is peer reviewed. I’ve listened to him speak on 4 or 5 occasions. I have never seen anyone show or even suggest that this guy is a liar or spreads false information.

On the other hand…..

After doing similar research into the government version of 911, I’ve concluded
that there is absolutely nothing to support their version of events. For instance, there is no proof that any Arab or organization called Al-Qaeda had any hand in, the planning of, or carrying out of 911,……nor did they derive any benefit from 911.

People are right to scrutinize the 911 truth movement, but everyone should also be
skeptical of what mainstream media and the government feeds them…..jmo.

..

[bigjon]

Trying to justify the official theory? I was actually addressing the non-official theory which suggests that remote controlled planes were used!

No you were not you were implying that anyone who would consider any alternative's to the official CONspiracy theory had to be one short of a full load. Just more disinfo to bolster the Official Conspiracy Theory.

[bigjon]

The alternative to the insane remote-control planes theory. The terrorists were real US-hating muslim fanatics but were being unknowingly controlled by the AOTPTB (almost omnipotent TPTB).

This theory obviously requires Al Qaeda to be controlled from the top by the AOTPTB. How does one go about proving this? You don't, it's down to what you want to believe.

The main point against it is the idea that someone like Bin Laden could lead such a double life. It is obvious that a paid up member of the AOTPTB is unlikely to be a devout follower of Allah and the Qu'ran.

Moreover, living a life in a tent on the constant go, doesn't seem a very good reward for being a paid up member of the AOTPTB. Neither is the psychological pressure of looking and acting like a fanatical muslim 24/7 in front of other genuine fanatical muslims.

Ergo, Osama Bin Laden, if anything, is a definite Qu'ran Thumper. Ergo, he is beyond the control of the AOTPTB.

And these devoted follower's are document boozers, gamblers and womanizers. Just the kind of zealot who whould give his life for Allah, NOT!!!

Silverity, why are such a blatant liar, or why are talking about something that you appear to be totally uninformed.

[Large Sarge]

I'll be your daisy ...


Save me from your lack of cognitive logic.


Pick me !


.

Still waiting on that 1000 ounces of silver, I vote you just send it to Dr. jones since he seems to have proven it.

Communication or integrity?

really leaning towards a lack of integrity...

go troll another thread Halo, or read up on the value of honesty, you support honest money... just not honest dialog or exchange

[Veritas]

Silverity,

Now you just stepped onto my ship! Welcome aboard!

First I would just like to commend you for stepping up...with some common misperceptions albeit...but allowing yours truely to address such matters!

Let's begin...

You say:

It doesn't matter who is alleged to have done the job.

Sure it matters! The question "who?" is what matters most! If we take your *shrug* approach, we can likewise apply the same to the JFK murder..."it doesn't matter who is alledged to have murdered the President"...or killed 3,000 Americans on 911. It sure as hel matters!

The list of difficulties in pulling off a remote, non-human plane crash is just too mind-boggling to merit serious attention.

"This is just too hard to comprehend".....don't give me that! If you don't want to think about it because it is "just too mind-boggling", so be it. Don't discourage others from attempting what you are incapable of.

Research the Operation Northwoods document. It lays out explicit plans to do exactly what you say is too mind-boggling to merit serious attention.

Of course, flight 93 suggests it was all very human. Unless you're telling us that was a TPTB job to make everyone think the plane was still being flown by the pilots. That would be the kind of response that stifles debates and reduces 9/11 to religious non-negotiable dogma.

I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make here. For what it is worth, the "heroic story" of Flight 93 was used by Hollywood to dramatize the event and divert attention from the reality of what took place on 9/11. Flight 93 is largely a non-issue.

In fact that is what makes the 9/11 conspiracy debate brain-dead. Anytime a serious objection is raised, you guys just come up with "The almost omnipotent TPTB made it just look that way" argument.

Some do. I don't. If you want a serious debate on this, and you want to discuss the facts and analyze the information present, then let's have at it. Place your ignorance by the wayside and you may learn a thing or two when all is said and done.

More to come...

[Veritas]

The alternative to the insane remote-control planes theory. The terrorists were real US-hating muslim fanatics but were being unknowingly controlled by the AOTPTB (almost omnipotent TPTB).

You are taking what I said out of context. When I was taking about suicide bombers on the thread that you are responding to, I was taking about suicide bombers in places like Bali, Israel, and other places around the world. I was not referring to the alledged hijackers of 9/11.

This theory obviously requires Al Qaeda to be controlled from the top by the AOTPTB. How does one go about proving this? You don't, it's down to what you want to believe.

Still out of context but I will address your question anyway. First of all, exactly how much do you really know about Al Qaeda? What is the organizations origin? I'll give you a little hint...C I A

The main point against it is the idea that someone like Bin Laden could lead such a double life.

You obviously don't know who Tim Ossman is. Tim Ossman is the name given (by the CIA) to CIA agent Usama bin Laden. Tim Ossman still works for the Central Intelligence Agency.

Moreover, living a life in a tent on the constant go, doesn't seem a very good reward for being a paid up member of the AOTPTB.

How do you know he lives in a tent? How do you know Tim Ossman doesn't live right here in the United States? How do you know Usama bin Laden even exists at all? Did CNN tell you he lives in a tent?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."
-William Colby, Director CIA

Neither is the psychological pressure of looking and acting like a fanatical muslim 24/7 in front of other genuine fanatical muslims.

That is the role he was given.

[Halophyte]

Still waiting on that 1000 ounces of silver, I vote you just send it to Dr. jones since he seems to have proven it.

Communication or integrity?

really leaning towards a lack of integrity...

go troll another thread Halo, or read up on the value of honesty, you support honest money... just not honest dialog or exchange

Jones is a 'cold fusion' crackpot. If he thinks he found newly fused helium nuclei in a jar, I'm sure it was easy for him to find a thermite molecule in a rubble pile ...

Aluminum and iron oxide is all it takes. Think an aluminum aircraft and a steel framed building can be isolated under an electron microscope ? That's one hell of a discovery Jones ...

Duh.

[Large Sarge]

Jones is a 'cold fusion' crackpot. If he thinks he found newly fused helium nuclei in a jar, I'm sure it was easy for him to find a thermite molecule in a rubble pile ...

Aluminum and iron oxide is all it takes. Think an aluminum aircraft and a steel framed building can be isolated under an electron microscope ? That's one hell of a discovery Jones ...

Duh.

you obviously did not read/listen much, it was Thermate, not thermite, unique signature containing high amounts of sulfur. melts the steel like butter.

interesting interview.

I think its time to call it quits Halo, real people admit when they are wrong, it makes you more of a man to admit mistakes than to live in fantasyland.
no one ever expected the 1000 ounces to begin with.

Time to grow up.

this is looking like a bad re-run from the 70's anymore.
:Sorry:

[Halophyte]

Are you sure it wasn't "termite" ?


.

[lr777g62d]

Are you sure it wasn't "termite" ?


.

termite...lol!

[runcible]

I never got why the towers had to be rigged at all, or why a missile had to be involved, etc.

If there is some shadowy organization that wanted to stage an attack on America, all that's required is devoting some time and expertise to some rather militant extermist groups.

Why make the problem more complicated than it needed to be?

[Veritas]

Are you sure it wasn't "termite" ?

...genetically engineered to chew through steel.

[DrillAndFill]

Why make the problem more complicated than it needed to be?I see you're new around here.

[Halophyte]

Sells books, videos and research grants too ...

Think of it as a new type of market economy.

[slvrbugjim]

I never got why the towers had to be rigged at all, or why a missile had to be involved, etc.

If there is some shadowy organization that wanted to stage an attack on America, all that's required is devoting some time and expertise to some rather militant extermist groups.

Why make the problem more complicated than it needed to be?

Hmm, just wondering just how old you are, 17?? Governments for over 2000 years have been using false flag terror operations to creat a pretext for war, to create fear and to control the populus. Problem reaction solution. The greatest fear and the strongest reaction is to cause the towers to fall. It worked, they got everything they wanted, war that will never end and a perfect enemy that can never be found. Bring the USA to the brink of failure, the economy is almost deep sixed now as most of us know.

For a world government to succeed, USA must be taken down, and that starts with you and me and the entire middle class.

But then again, perhaps you wish to think that this administration and this government is pure and the driven snow and of course would never lie to you or me. Federal Express and the Federal Reserve are both a part of the government, "that is what I heard on CNN" must be true. Not sure if you are a shill or just not very informed, most persons here, are here because they are very informed BTW,.

[gunner]

So let's see, Jones is a crackpot because he (and others) agree that jet fuel does not melt steel and take down skyscrapers. Yeah, okay - I'll believe the gov't fable about arabs with box cutters after I believe that the Federal Reserve is part of our gov't and Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy with that magic bullet. I'd better ignore the 2 bombs that were removed from the Murrah building in OKC and the missing surveilance cameras as well.

We invaded Afghanistan to take out the Taliban gov't because they wouldn't turn over Bin Laden (which the FBI now says that there's no hard evidence that he was involved in 9/11). We invaded Iraq over alleged WMDs that were never found and now we want to attack Iran because they MAY get the capability to build nuclear weapons in the future.

Anyone who can't see through this nonsense must have the mindset of a young child

[slvrbugjim]

:emotions15::emotions15::emotions15:So let's see, Jones is a crackpot because he (and others) agree that jet fuel does not melt steel and take down skyscrapers. Yeah, okay - I'll believe the gov't fable, after I believe that the Federal Reserve is part of our gov't and Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy with that magic bullet. I'd better ignore the 2 bombs that were removed from the Murrah building on OKC and the missing surveilance cameras as well.

[slvrbugjim]

So let's see, Jones is a crackpot because he (and others) agree that jet fuel does not melt steel and take down skyscrapers. Yeah, okay - I'll believe the gov't fable, after I believe that the Federal Reserve is part of our gov't and Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy with that magic bullet. I'd better ignore the 2 bombs that were removed from the Murrah building on OKC and the missing surveilance cameras as well.

Good job, thanks.