MAX PAIN

[wrs]

You don't know what it is until you have a kidney stone. I had the unfortunate experience for the second time in my life yesterday. Actually it started Friday night and finished early this AM around 2:38. Notice the precision with which I note the finish time. The first time this happened to me was January 2000.

I thought I had indigestion on Friday night and after several fruitless trips to the bathroom and more pain directly in the area of my left kidney, a neuron went off in my brain that said, hey this is what it felt like 6 years ago, bet you have another kidney stone. Well sure enough I did. I went through about 2 hours of extreme pain Saturday morning, part while waiting at the PruCare place to see a doctor. He gave me some Vicodin and verified there was blood in my urine. They took a couple of xrays but couldn't see the stone so he concluded it was smaller than 5mm. The last one I had was 5mm and it showed up in a sonogram, it also waited two weeks to finish it's journey.

The stone transits from kidney where it doesn't hurt to the urinary tract where it hurts like hell as it moves. If it stays put it doesn't hurt but it has to move in order to get to the bladder. Once it arrives at the bladder, you are in for the most excruciating and intense pain as it pushes it's way into the bladder through the one way valve at the bottom of the urinary tract/top of the bladder.

I woke up at 1am this morning and realized I was about to be treated to the last trek of the stone so I took a Vocidin (it's completely worthless). It took nearly two hours to get it into the bladder. At 1:47 when the pain was reaching it's apex I thought, if I can get through another half hour, I may make it. It seemed like an eternity as I paced back and forth in between my kitchen, breakfast room and family room. At 2:27 the pain was still intense and so I started rolling up into a ball and rolling around on the floor. About 2:35 I felt something move around down in the area of my bladder and so I got up and stood up straight. The pain in my nuts and bladder was incredibly intense but at this point I had great hope that this was the end of it because the focus of it had shifted and I knew the stone was dropping through. Sure enough by 2:38 the pain started to subside and within 10 minutes I was in bed asleep.

Now I had the benefit of going through this before so I kind of knew what to expect. Let me tell you that in the first experience when the stone made it's final trip it took 4 hours not two and since it was two weeks after the stone first moved into place above the bladder, I was out of Vicodin and had no pain relief. The Vicodin was worthless anyway except at the beginning, nothing can block the intense pain of a kidney stone as it makes it's final transit if it's a decent sized one.

Anyway, the moral of this is that you just don't know how long the pain can last and you can't get out of it so you just have to take it. I kind of see that as what is going to happen when things really go bad, the collapse that we are always talking about. We are at the point economically where the kidney stone has moved into the urinary tract and started hurting but it hasn't moved enough to cause much pain yet and the amount of pain that is to come is far greater and more intense than the little we have experienced to date. We probably all have our little economic bottles of Vicodin but when max pain arrives, they wont be much help.

I don't wish a kidney stone on anyone but it sure is a lesson in understanding how helpless we are in the face of max pain.

[Curtman]

How do you prevent these things? What are they, calcium deposit or what? Must be some change in diet that can prevent or dislove them. Did you ask the doctor that or would he even tell you?

[T1_9914]

WRS,

Thanks for that journey. My Dad had stone problems and I've been waiting for mine for years.

Now I know a little of what to expect. I have plenty of Vicoden.

That was valuable information.

[wrs]

Hey curtman, thats a good question but you better get the answer before you get one. I heard all kinds of stuff after the first one like drink orange juice every day. Some people are more prone to producing them than others. There are a list of foods that contain oxalates which are conducive to the formation of the things.

The problem is that you have to catch the stone when it comes out if you can so they can analyze the composition. Once they analyze the composition they can tell you more about why it may have formed. My problem is that my bladder grinds them up and I haven't ever gotten one out in my urine.

[Curtman]

Large Sarge is the resident medicine man, he may chime in with some advice.

[lhslancers]

I've had kidney stones 3 times in the past 5 years. The pain is incredible. The first time it was so bad they had to give me a shot of morphine. Thankfully I was out cold in seconds. I always passed them overnite in the hospital so never had to get bombarded to make the stones smaller. The pain is worse or equal to childbirth I'm told. I have a tendency to manufacture calcium so I expect this will be a recurring condition.

[Dude]

Can you compare the pain to anything else you've experienced - a broken leg, burst appendix, buckshot in the face? :afraid:

[Large Sarge]

Thanks for the intro Curtman,

a few things come back on this topic...

1. Bacterial infection causes the stone formation, kidney infection I believe. Seems they always find bacteria in the stones,

2. Seem to remember that folks who drink a lot of iced tea (or maybe just tea period), have a higher incidence of the stones.... so if that applies to you, you might switch beverages...


3. if/ when you get a stone, have you ever tried a mild diuretic? to speed it along? (Dandelion perhaps)

4. Also, I would recommend drinking ozonated water, especially during the passage of the stone.... Ozone is amazing stuff...
Hyper oxygenate the body...

thats a quick answer....

[lhslancers]

Can you compare the pain to anything else you've experienced - a broken leg, burst appendix, buckshot in the face? :afraid:

The only thing that even comes close is writing that weekly support and alimony check. :aetsch: :rolleyes:

[Dude]

I crushed 2 fingers and a thumb when I was a kid, but it didn't seem too terribly bad, as I recall.

In college, I needed a cortisone shot for my back (with a 2 inch needle). The intense pain didn't last too long - I passed out. Laid me up for 2 months. Married the girlfriend that took care of me. 24 years later, still married to her. Alimony checks would probably kill me...

[Curtman]

Thanks LS but I will give up my 2 gallons of green tea I drink a day when I am dead and not before then. If I was to stop drinking tea I would just have to substitute the same for Red Hook Ale or Pyramid Wheaton Ale and the expense of the amount I would drink a day would be equivalent to a half a tube of rounds each day.
I do not like the sounds of this stone idea. I am going to look into it some more and see what I can come up with.
On another note in the tread topic Calcium Bomb I was happy to find out two of the best blood cleansers out there are Red Clover and Burdock Root. Both of which you can make a tea out of and I used to organic farm with a guy who raised the Burdock and sell it to the local organic shops. The Chinese are big customers of this item. I remember grinding and drying it for him and tried the root in a tea years ago but it was awful. I may need to develope a taste for it now since there is no shortage of it in the wild and has some powerful cleansing attributes to it.
Will let yo know what I can find out about the kidney rocks. do not like the sound if this one.

[Large Sarge]

I do not think Green tea applies to the situation, I believe it is only regular tea...

I want to say it contains "Oxalic acid"??

the best solution is to knock out the bacteria making the stones, then your diet is not as big a factor...

[bjgnome]

On another note in the tread topic Calcium Bomb I was happy to find out two of the best blood cleansers out there are Red Clover and Burdock Root. Both of which you can make a tea out of and I used to organic farm with a guy who raised the Burdock and sell it to the local organic shops. The Chinese are big customers of this item. I remember grinding and drying it for him and tried the root in a tea years ago but it was awful. I may need to develope a taste for it now since there is no shortage of it in the wild and has some powerful cleansing attributes to it.
Will let yo know what I can find out about the kidney rocks. do not like the sound if this one.
I never cared for Burdock tea, but I love the flavor cooked in the right way in various dishes. My favorite is risotto with burdock and shitake mushrooms. Search the internet for recipes, and you can easily add it to your diet.

My favorite remedy for the kidneys is watermelon syrup. Created by a past physician to the emperor of Japan (who certainly was humbled by a few kidney stones of his own), it consists of like a dozen watermelons boiled down into a tiny jar of syrup. A tiny, tiny teaspoon of that in a cup of hot water does wonders for the kidneys. You can feel it right away. A relaxing, softening kind of feeling. Makes you pee, too.

[Curtman]

I never cared for Burdock tea, but I love the flavor cooked in the right way in various dishes. My favorite is risotto with burdock and shitake mushrooms. Search the internet for recipes, and you can easily add it to your diet.

My favorite remedy for the kidneys is watermelon syrup. Created by a past physician to the emperor of Japan (who certainly was humbled by a few kidney stones of his own), it consists of like a dozen watermelons boiled down into a tiny jar of syrup. A tiny, tiny teaspoon of that in a cup of hot water does wonders for the kidneys. You can feel it right away. A relaxing, softening kind of feeling. Makes you pee, too.

That sounds very interesting, thanks.
I wonder what it is in the watermelon tincture that can survive the boiling and still remain beneficial.
The idea of the burdock root is appreciated also. I will do some checking on new recipes. I do get the red clover flowers in the early summer and try my best to make them last.
What about white tea? I love that stuff. I have been getting some great leaves from a place near the border, Pai Mu Tan. It is nearly the best tea I have ever drank but very expensive. Hojicha and organic gunpowder are also good throughout the day and licorice root is pleasant also as a compliment to some of the others like dragon teardrops.

[Large Sarge]

watermelon is a diuretic, unsure about "The softening effect" mentioned...

[lhslancers]

Ever get kicked square in the jewels? That hurts like a sob.

[Curtman]

Want max pain? Join the Army:



What relevance does your post have to do with this kidney stone thread?

[silverbullet]

wrs,
I feel your pain, man. Just went through it for the second time. First time was both kidneys, this time just one. EXACTLY 2 years apart, to the day. My stones get big enough they can't pass, they just cause a blockage. Then it's shock-wave lythotripsy to break them up...then you have to pass the pieces. On top of that, once you have a blockage, they have to put a stent in to bypass it. They put it in under sedation. But they take it out while you're wide awake, in the doctor's office. Guess how they get it??? There's only one opening that leads to the bladder and kidneys....

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Not so much that it hurts, it's just very uncomfortable. And no one is supposed to push anything up there EVER, especially not with a little camera on the end. Ever wish you could see inside the big guy? Me either! My urologist put me on medication now, three times a day. Says I shouldn't get any more, we'll see. Every medical professional I've talked to says it is by far the ABSOLUTE WORST pain anyone can go through. Nobody really knows why. Here's to hoping that noone else here ever has to go through it again!!:beer:

[Large Sarge]

wrs,

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Sorry it had to happen to you.

The only thing I've found that hurts more is when your arrogant, condescending asshole idiot doctor screws up. I went in for "lithotripsy" which is where they break the stones up with an ultrasound cannon. They are supposed to then put a "stent" in from your kidney to your bladder to keep the ureter open so the fragments can wash out without piling up and causing a blockage.

It was supposed to be an "out-patient" procedure but I was in incredible pain when I woke up, despite the anesthesia. I kept telling them about it and nobody listened. I got up when I was supposed to get ready to leave and collapsed from the pain down to my knees. About the time I had gotten myself on my feet, the nurse that hadn't been listening came with my clothes and told me to get dressed so I could leave. I dropped the clothes and grabbed her by both shoulders and told her in no uncertain terms I was going nowhere until we figured out what this pain was about because it is SEVERE.

I managed to get her attention.....

She didn't like it (I was interupting their rhythm, I guess and slowing down their little money factory) but she took steps and I was finally admitted. The dipshit asshole doctor, of course, had already left the building so they couldn't do anyting until they got in touch with him. Whenever I would urinate, the incredible WAVES of pain would come back and I'd about collapse. The doctor just denied there could be anything wrong and said he'd be in "later". Enough screaming and I finally got some morphine, which helped a lot.

Finally the asshole comes back and orders an X-ray which revealed what the problem was. It was the "stent". The stent is like a plastic wire (no metal) with a little curly hook about the diameter of a nickel on the end. They use a device that holds it straight to insert it and then when they let go, the "loop" curls back up, holding that end in the bladder. It turns out this incompetent jerk hadn't inserted it all the way up into the kidney and that little loop was in the ureter trying to uncurl itself!

The bladder moved every time I urinated, which pulled on the stent, causing the extreme pain.

I'd take the stone again before I'd take the stent-in-the-ureter torture device but the pain of a stone is still right up there with the most anyone will ever experience.

Curtman, I highly recommend "The Cure for All Diseases" by Hulda Clark, PhD. There is a lot of useful info about kidney stones (and other stuff) including herbal remedies and preventions.

This book, to me, is to medicine what "The Creature" is to banking and economics. I buy lots of them to give away to folks I think might use it.

If it weren't for this book, I'd say (without going into it) that I'm not sure I'd be walking around regularly now.

One thing for sure, if you take calcium, take magnezium too! You can't absorb calcium without magnezium, which is one reason the calcium builds up in various places (like the kidneys) and makes (one kind of) kidney stones. Also, stay hydrated. The minerals can sink to the bottom of the kidneys and "calcify" or "solidify" a lot more easily if you are dehydrated and there's not enough fluid to keep it in suspension.....

You need vitamin D for your bones to absorb the calcium.

End of lecture.

I will now entertain questions until the end of the class period....

Excellent book, Hulda clark....

Recommended reading to all...

[Au_Ag]

How do you prevent these things?

One way

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=29555

_grin_

Regards

Ken

[silverbullet]

Agreed, skyvike.

I wouldn't believe that something so small could make you cry like a little girl, until I went through it myself. :bawling: Suddenly you don't feel so tough...

[GoldWampum]

Ever get kicked square in the jewels? That hurts like a sob.


Still hurts when I think about it.:afraid:

[Pragmatist]

Shatner resently had the experience and discusses his feelings with Jimmy Kimmel. Funny shyte.
:haha: <----Rything On The Floor In Pain ROTFIP.
http://www.wimp.com/shatner/

Prag

[Curtman]

I just do not like the sound of any of this.

[SAUM]

My problem is that my bladder grinds them up and I haven't ever gotten one out in my urine.

Like you I thought I had passed mine but found out a couple of years later that I had not. When it started moving again I thought I had a new stone, but after passing the damned thing I concluded that the monster got lodged and just remained in place that long with little issue. In my experience from the bladder to the toilet isn't too bad, just made me feel like I had to pee all the time. A small word of advice though, hope like hell you have enough urine to make it pass through the penis completely. mine got lodged in there and that was extremely miserable until the next bathroom trip. I know this will be hard to believe but I passed mine at work. One DR prescribed ketrolac (sp also marketed as toradol I think) Called it a miracle drug for stones and I think he was right, other Drs poo pooed the idea but I was at least able to go to work on that med. Used lortab at bed time. It was about the size of a .177 pellet with spikes all over.

[ajrocks]

Go to www.curezone.com lots of info there for getting rid of them and Hulda clark is one of the modarators(sp):coolbeer:

[Curtman]

Go to www.curezone.com (http://www.curezone.com) lots of info there for getting rid of them and Hulda clark is one of the modarators(sp):coolbeer:

Added that one to my health folder in my favorites. Thanks.

[silverbullet]

Saum,
Toradol is the drug of choice these days. At least over other pain meds. Apparently toradol relaxes muscles along the ureter, allowing things to progress. Other pain meds make the pain go away (at least some), but they also paralyze the muscles, causing he stone to stay where it is. It feels better, but it ain't gettin' any better!

My med of choice...IV dilaudid. Got 5 shots my last ER trip for a blockage. That's some good stuff. Only problem was I kept falling asleep during the CAT scan. Didn't know my own name for hours. But you know what...nothing hurt at all! That was my only concern at that point!

One good side to all this. Try to follow along...my wife (the nurse) surmises that I started getting stones after our first daughter was born. What changed? "You don't go out drinking with the guys as much as you did before." (My choice, I like spending available time with my little girls). Her answer to the problem..."Why don't we get you a tap system for the basement. You can use it to flush your kidneys out like you did before." God love her...she wants me to drink more beer. I ran the idea past my doctor, he says it may have some merit. I could not, however, get him to write a prescription for it so my insurance would have to buy the beer. How sweet would that be??? :coolbeer:

[Pragmatist]

I have never passed stones. But I do NOT recommend the new "pain free" hemorrhoid staple surgery. "Back to work in just a few hours". My A$$! It took me 6 months to recover and was the most painful experience that I have ever had.

I still whence at Dodge Truck commercials.

Gotta Hemi?:eek:
Prag

[Sir O of K]

One thing for sure, if you take calcium, take magnezium too! You can't absorb calcium without magnezium, which is one reason the calcium builds up in various places (like the kidneys) and makes (one kind of) kidney stones. Also, stay hydrated. The minerals can sink to the bottom of the kidneys and "calcify" or "solidify" a lot more easily if you are dehydrated and there's not enough fluid to keep it in suspension.....

You need vitamin D for your bones to absorb the calcium.



These suggestions for prevention seem sound. Several years ago, I was undergoing precautionary tests for another ailment when a kidney stone was found via ultrasound. To date it has not moved. PRAISE GOD!!!

Anyhow, I did some checking around at the time about how to prevent these things. Supplements that came up as helpful were Magnesium Citrate, Potassium Citrate and Vitamin B6. I recall reading not to take large doses of Vitamin C. Staying hydrated through drinking plenty of water was highly recommended. Drinking soda pop was discouraged as it works against the hydration process.

I'm not great at staying hydrated but I do much better through the summer months when heat makes it easy to keep drinking. I've been faithfully taking 300 mg of Magnesium Citrate & 100 mg of Potassium Citrate daily since first being diagnosed. In the end , I consider these things to depend on the will of God and the specific workings of the individual's body.

In any case, may none of us ever have to endure a kidney stone!