One simple question ...

[Agamemnon]

Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?

[Drumblebum]

Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?

I heard on Fox Nooz that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny have all shown interest...

[cigarlover]

The taxpayer. Bush Paulson an bernanke are laughing thier asses off right now.. They did it. They broke the back of america and noone even rasied a finger to stop them. They completely fleeced this country of everything, industry, wealth and if they use the gold as collateral then they will have stolen just about everything.

They may have a weeklong series of repeats on American idol just for you America!! When you wake up the following monday nothing will be left.

[Hellsbane]

Sometimes, to fix what is wrong, you must first break it.

[jedemdasseine]

Can USA, Inc. buy its own? Like a girl scout buying her own cookies? If she can conjure money out of thin air, why not?

[uranian]

mysterious unnamed hedge funds in the caribbean?

[Silver Shield]

The fed will buy the debt. This is what I have been waiting for in my hyper inflationary depression scenerio. This is monetization of debt and on top of that new money you will see trillions of foriegn dollars being dumped. This is going to be like a train wreck, big, messy, and over relatively quickly.

[jedemdasseine]

Dark liquidity pools? Sovereign wealth funds? The insiders who know full-well that the gold certificate ratio will be re-introduced in a few years and the dollar will rally hard? The BIS? (They do have that pseudo-currency that they can't spend fast enough.) The morons who believe whatever Erin Burnett tells them?

[silverblood]

What is the gold certificate ratio that you refer to jedemdasseine?

[jedemdasseine]

What is the gold certificate ratio that you refer to jedemdasseine?

It's what Jim Sinclair has been harping about for years. Interesting stuff.

I don't blindly follow Sinclair by any means, but his opinion is certainly worth considering. Here are two good pages in which he discusses the gold certificate ratio.

http://www.jsmineset.com/ARhome.asp?VAfg=1&RQ=EDL,1&AR_T=1&GID=&linkid=5773&T_ARID=5828

http://www.jsmineset.com/ARhome.asp?VAfg=1&RQ=EDL,1&AR_T=1&GID=&linkid=4623&T_ARID=4692

[jedemdasseine]

From a strictly academic perspective, all our monetary woes are functions of accounting cupidity and a dearth of accountability.

It's not just about convertibility. It's about balancing the ledger.

[BigShiny]

http://news.goldseek.com/CliveMaund/1222029052.php

"The big danger now is that the T-Bond "gravy train" will come to a screeching halt. If that happens the United States as we know it is finished. Having gutted its own manufacturing base, partly through outsourcing, and partly through simple lack of competitiveness, it is economically dependant on inflows of foreign capital and goods, a sizeable part of which is supplied by means of selling Treasury paper. If foreigners suddenly decide that they have better uses for their money, sales of T-bonds could collapse, leading to an immediate credit and funding crisis in the debt-wracked US economy and in order to attract buyers rates will have to be ramped up dramatically, which in the current fragile environment would lead swiftly to an economic implosion. The abuses of funds now being perpetrated by the government in order to bail out unworthy corporations and institutions are greatly increasing the risks of this happening. "

I have been reading also that sales of T-bonds plummeted on Friday and that T-bond interest rates jumped from 3% to 5%, since no one wants them anymore....this could get ugly quickly.

[Neuro Artist]

http://news.goldseek.com/CliveMaund/1222029052.php

"The big danger now is that the T-Bond "gravy train" will come to a screeching halt. If that happens the United States as we know it is finished. Having gutted its own manufacturing base, partly through outsourcing, and partly through simple lack of competitiveness, it is economically dependant on inflows of foreign capital and goods, a sizeable part of which is supplied by means of selling Treasury paper. If foreigners suddenly decide that they have better uses for their money, sales of T-bonds could collapse, leading to an immediate credit and funding crisis in the debt-wracked US economy and in order to attract buyers rates will have to be ramped up dramatically, which in the current fragile environment would lead swiftly to an economic implosion. The abuses of funds now being perpetrated by the government in order to bail out unworthy corporations and institutions are greatly increasing the risks of this happening. "

I have been reading also that sales of T-bonds plummeted on Friday and that T-bond interest rates jumped from 3% to 5%, since no one wants them anymore....this could get ugly quickly.
Yes holding T-bonds isn't going to be a good investment. The dollar plunging and interest rates going up. An avalanche is coming. No one will buy the T-bonds they have to be bought up by the federal reserve bank with money created from nothing. Or did they do a secret deal with the Chinese to keep holding T-bills and selling them the treasury gold? This could keep the game going a bit longer! The Arabs and the Japanese could probably be kept in line with some military arm-twisting....

[Avalon]

The taxpayer. Bush Paulson an bernanke are laughing their asses off right now.. They did it. They broke the back of america and no one even raised a finger to stop them. They completely fleeced this country of everything, industry, wealth and if they use the gold as collateral then they will have stolen just about everything.

They may have a weeklong series of repeats on American idol just for you America!! When you wake up the following monday nothing will be left.

Hey me and my family watch American Idol and I am not asleep at the wheel... :rant:
The mind needs occasional junk food.. :tongue_ma:

[jedemdasseine]

Sometimes it's nice to indulge in mindless entertainment. I'd be a basket case if I thought about TSHTF all day.

:)

[Avalon]

Sometimes it's nice to indulge in mindless entertainment. I'd be a basket case if I thought about TSHTF all day.

:)
Yep, I did that for quite a few months and I was a basket case and it scared my family. I do think a certain amount of fear and stress can be a good motivator for the monumental task of preparing. It can also take your life over and ruin what little time we have left to enjoy a normal life.

[Ronnie Mexico]

Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?

All the people who love to see their investments go up in smoke in the long term.

[Neuro Artist]

All the people who love to see their investments go up in smoke in the long term.

Marijuana dealers?

[Hypertiger]

The total money supply of the USA or what the FEDERAL RESERVE calls Total credit market debt...they also call it total credit market assets as well...because they are the same thing.

The total money/debt supply reported in q2 2008 is...51.0190 Trillion Dollars

51 trillion dollars of debt that US consumers have requested the commercial baking system to maunfacture since 1944...

The total Public debt currently is 9.6 Trillion...meaning that the US Federal government has "borrowed" 9.6 Trillion dollars of the total moeny supply or debt of 51 trillion dollars that US consumers have requested commercial banks to manufacture since 1944.

"Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?"

Ultimately in the end...all that the federal government is doing...is exchanging bonds for cash...by borrowing x amount of the money supply of the USA.

To fight WW2 the US Government issued enough bonds to utilize 50% of the money supply of the USA...currently up to this point the US Federal Government has only utilized 18% of the money supply of the USA.

One slight problem...the source of new money creation is the consumer and the current problem is that consumers are maxed out and can't request commercial banks to manufacture enough new money to service the existance of the previously created money...

Result..the performing debts are transforming into non performing debts...

All that the bailouts can possibly do is slow down the acceleration of the implosion already in progress...

At some pont people are going to flip out because the the Federal Government will have to issue 2 Trillion in new Treasuries and figure out a nifty way to distribute the funds to just tread water this year.

Without an inflating real estate sector...I just don't see how it's possible to sustain the system much longer.

It's taken 64 years for the consumers of the USA to hit max out...they are not going to get out any quicker other than defaulting.

forget taxes and all the things you are worried/bawling about...the USA along with the rest of the world is going to implode to oblivion.

Because with maxed out consumers...there is no way to sustain the required amount of inflation of the money supply needed to service the existance of it...or pay taxes or keep the lights or pay mortgages or eat.

The money supply is one massive performing debt that is going to transform into one huge non performing debt.

[cigarlover]

Hey me and my family watch American Idol and I am not asleep at the wheel... :rant:
The mind needs occasional junk food.. :tongue_ma:

You know i wasant talking about you or any other gimmer :):):s9:

[cigarlover]

What happens with gold and silver in this sceanrio HT? I think it goes up as they try to hold it together, then implodes. So if you have 1000 oz of silver and silver spikes to 100 then our system implodes it would make sense to cash out and hols cash because in a depression cash will be worth more correct?

The total money supply of the USA or what the FEDERAL RESERVE calls Total credit market debt...they also call it total credit market assets as well...because they are the same thing.

The total money/debt supply reported in q2 2008 is...51.0190 Trillion Dollars

51 trillion dollars of debt that US consumers have requested the commercial baking system to maunfacture since 1944...

The total Public debt currently is 9.6 Trillion...meaning that the US Federal government has "borrowed" 9.6 Trillion dollars of the total moeny supply or debt of 51 trillion dollars that US consumers have requested commercial banks to manufacture since 1944.

"Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?"

Ultimately in the end...all that the federal government is doing...is exchanging bonds for cash...by borrowing x amount of the money supply of the USA.

To fight WW2 the US Government issued enough bonds to utilize 50% of the money supply of the USA...currently up to this point the US Federal Government has only utilized 18% of the money supply of the USA.

One slight problem...the source of new money creation is the consumer and the current problem is that consumers are maxed out and can't request commercial banks to manufacture enough new money to service the existance of the previously created money...

Result..the performing debts are transforming into non performing debts...

All that the bailouts can possibly do is slow down the acceleration of the implosion already in progress...

At some pont people are going to flip out because the the Federal Government will have to issue 2 Trillion in new Treasuries and figure out a nifty way to distribute the funds to just tread water this year.

Without an inflating real estate sector...I just don't see how it's possible to sustain the system much longer.

It's taken 64 years for the consumers of the USA to hit max out...they are not going to get out any quicker other than defaulting.

forget taxes and all the things you are worried/bawling about...the USA along with the rest of the world is going to implode to oblivion.

Because with maxed out consumers...there is no way to sustain the required amount of inflation of the money supply needed to service the existance of it...or pay taxes or keep the lights or pay mortgages or eat.

The money supply is one massive performing debt that is going to transform into one huge non performing debt.

[hystckndle]

Check this out....3 month Treasury yield....
Willie ( and others ) surmise that an attack against us could possibly come from "Weapons of Mass Destruction" AKA Treasurys...

[RichG]

The total money supply of the USA or what the FEDERAL RESERVE calls Total credit market debt...they also call it total credit market assets as well...because they are the same thing.

The total money/debt supply reported in q2 2008 is...51.0190 Trillion Dollars

51 trillion dollars of debt that US consumers have requested the commercial baking system to maunfacture since 1944...

The total Public debt currently is 9.6 Trillion...meaning that the US Federal government has "borrowed" 9.6 Trillion dollars of the total moeny supply or debt of 51 trillion dollars that US consumers have requested commercial banks to manufacture since 1944.

"Who is going to buy all the treasury bonds to fund all the bailouts ... ?"

Ultimately in the end...all that the federal government is doing...is exchanging bonds for cash...by borrowing x amount of the money supply of the USA.

To fight WW2 the US Government issued enough bonds to utilize 50% of the money supply of the USA...currently up to this point the US Federal Government has only utilized 18% of the money supply of the USA.

One slight problem...the source of new money creation is the consumer and the current problem is that consumers are maxed out and can't request commercial banks to manufacture enough new money to service the existance of the previously created money...

Result..the performing debts are transforming into non performing debts...

All that the bailouts can possibly do is slow down the acceleration of the implosion already in progress...

At some pont people are going to flip out because the the Federal Government will have to issue 2 Trillion in new Treasuries and figure out a nifty way to distribute the funds to just tread water this year.

Without an inflating real estate sector...I just don't see how it's possible to sustain the system much longer.

It's taken 64 years for the consumers of the USA to hit max out...they are not going to get out any quicker other than defaulting.

forget taxes and all the things you are worried/bawling about...the USA along with the rest of the world is going to implode to oblivion.

Because with maxed out consumers...there is no way to sustain the required amount of inflation of the money supply needed to service the existance of it...or pay taxes or keep the lights or pay mortgages or eat.

The money supply is one massive performing debt that is going to transform into one huge non performing debt.

Why is the inflation/deflation question so hard to answer? Some say that this bailout will cause inflation...new money printed, but if I read you right this bailout will be financed by 'borrowing' money already in existence....deflation. Which is it? And if money is borrowed, will it come from 'The total Public debt of 9.6 Trillion' or from somewhere in the 'total' 51 Trillion Total credit market debt?

$+
:smokin:

[hystckndle]

HT, I would be interested also in a brief synopsis of RichG's ?

[RichG]

What happens with gold and silver in this sceanrio HT? I think it goes up as they try to hold it together, then implodes. So if you have 1000 oz of silver and silver spikes to 100 then our system implodes it would make sense to cash out and hols cash because in a depression cash will be worth more correct?

Can I pile onto this question? How many bananas will my 1000 oz silver be worth?:smokin:

[Weho Dave]

How about a new class of fiat currency will be created for this bailout, that will be exchangeable for FRNs. An additional $2000 of this new currency will be issued to every American to start the ball rolling. Oh and this new currency will be redeemable in Canada and Mexico too. Hmm, what can we call it???

[Camp Bassfish]

Can I pile onto this question? How many bananas will my 1000 oz silver be worth?:smokin:


Are we talking physical bananas or ETF bananas? There's a rather large disconnect building!


:D

[cigarlover]

Well if we go back to the 1930's. bananas were .15 a lb. Prime rib was .22 a lb..
Average salary around 1200
http://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/priceguide.html

[RichG]

Well if we go back to the 1930's. bananas were .15 a lb. Prime rib was .22 a lb..
Average salary around 1200
http://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/priceguide.html

Cool I am going to corner the banana market...whoooowhooo.:smokin:

[cigarlover]

Nice, at least I will know who to come to for bananas!!!

Actually one of my requirements for land in the PI is I have to have mango trees and oranges. Love my fresh fruit in the tropics hehehehe. I'll have to look into growing bananas too.