Help needed

[GreenFrog]

Hi.
As silly as it may seem, I may have to invest a max of 5000$ in gold and related sectors in the next 24/48 hours. And maybe also another max of 5000$ later this week. This is not all: it's also about these funds for "when we'll be old" which don't care about gold, since I guess I'll have to ask them some changes there too.

I read quite enough to know what I think about all this, but I'm sure there are some things I am not informed about. So basically, what would you propose me to do? I already found a bunch of Canadian funds based on gold (http://globefunddb.theglobeandmail.com/gishome/plsql/gis.process_fr?fr_mode=ANALYSER&pi_universe=PUBLIC_FUND&fr_param1=All+companies&fr_param5=Precious+Metals&fr_param3=3+year&fr_param4=0&fr_param12=6&fr_param13=&fr_param7=All&fr_param11=All&fr_param2=All&fr_param6=All&fr_param10=All&fr_param8=All&fr_param9=All&rep_type=STD&iaction=Go), I read quite alot about coins, rare coins and so on. But I'm sure someone could still give some help to a beginner as me. I'm Canadian so the currency is an issue, but I do not bother buying American or any other country's stocks.


Oh, and an important question: is the Austin Coin Collecting Society a good place to buy coins? I still cannot really evaluate these by myself... Would these rare coins rise more than normal gold coins in an economic crisis?

[hoarder]

Greenfrog,

My opinion, which is free and worth every penny, is to stay away from numismatic coins. The buy/sell spread is high and when the s**t hits the fan, the sentimental value is not important.
My recommendation is to buy physical silver. Bullion and "junk" silver coins at as close to spot as possible.

Good luck.

[GreenFrog]

Ok. Are there exceptions with numismatic?

I have in mind this one for example (very little more than the melt):
http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?item=3489&grp=1&categ=27
There are sometimes also some sales, like for these Jefferson coins:http://coins.to/sale.html

Or some stable values such as the British Sovereign (http://accentrarecoins.com/goldcoins/britgolsov.html). Otherwise, why is it used by army people instead of just gold?


None of these numismatic coins worth at least as much as "normal" gold/silver?


Why do you prefer silver to gold? And what do you mean by "the spread"? Also, what does "at as close to spot as possible" mean? (I guess my English isn't perfect...)

Does someone know if the "normal" gold went up more than the numismatic gold in crisis? Anyone has figures?

[IrishGold]

What part of, "stay away from numismatic coins" did you not understand?

Many believe that the potential percentage gain to be higher in silver than in gold.

If you know what "melt" means, why do you not know that spread = difference in price

[90%RealMoney]

Ok. Are there exceptions with numismatic?

I have in mind this one for example (very little more than the melt):
http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?item=3489&grp=1&categ=27
There are sometimes also some sales, like for these Jefferson coins:http://coins.to/sale.html

Or some stable values such as the British Sovereign (http://accentrarecoins.com/goldcoins/britgolsov.html). Otherwise, why is it used by army people instead of just gold?


None of these numismatic coins worth at least as much as "normal" gold/silver?



Why do you prefer silver to gold? And what do you mean by "the spread"? Also, what does "at as close to spot as possible" mean? (I guess my English isn't perfect...)

Does someone know if the "normal" gold went up more than the numismatic gold in crisis? Anyone has figures?
Hi Green Frog. The spread is the difference between what you must pay for the coin, and what the dealer would pay YOU for the same coin. The trouble with Numismatic coins, is that as they go up in value, the spread percentage increases! The dealers love to tell you how much a coins price increased, but always fail to tell you that the spread percentage increased along the way as well. Scorpio can probably inform you well on this topic. As for silver versus gold, Butler is recommending silver because it is severely undervalued at the present time, and the price appreciation potential versus gold, is much higher. Plus, at the low price of $5.25 per ounce, you can obtain a Shitload of it, on the cheap!

[GreenFrog]

A source (http://coins.to/generic1.html) I had that made me wonder about numismatic was saying that rare coins permitted more profits. Is it possible to sell numismatic coins easily other than by dealers (auctions...)?

Someone knows if in 1929 numismatic coins gave less profit than generic coins?



If I buy silver or gold, where do you propose me to buy all this? Online? Should I buy gold/silver in bars, coins? I don't understand why almost-scrap silver would be more worth it... Also, why is silver more undervalued than gold? Will gold go up more in a crisis?

PS: Any source to read from is appreciated :)

[90%RealMoney]

A source (http://coins.to/generic1.html) I had that made me wonder about numismatic was saying that rare coins permitted more profits. Is it possible to sell numismatic coins easily other than by dealers (auctions...)?

Someone knows if in 1929 numismatic coins gave less profit than generic coins?



If I buy silver or gold, where do you propose me to buy all this? Online? Should I buy gold/silver in bars, coins? I don't understand why almost-scrap silver would be more worth it... Also, why is silver more undervalued than gold? Will gold go up more in a crisis?

PS: Any source to read from is appreciated :)
Rare coins DO permit more profits, for the DEALER. If you need to sell, and the market is falling, you will need to sell by the fastest means possible. Setting up an internet auction, and waiting for the sale, may cost you dearly! A dealer will be the quickest method, or an individual, if you get lucky. In order to triple in price, gold must go to over $1100.00 per ounce. Silver only to $15.00+. Which do you think is more likely? Sounds like you are really trying to talk yourself into Numismatic coins. We've told you all we can. A friend of mine once said "You can't tell some people that the fire is hot, you just have to let them walk in, and figure it out for themselves"

[GreenFrog]

Rare coins DO permit more profits, for the DEALER. If you need to sell, and the market is falling, you will need to sell by the fastest means possible. Setting up an internet auction, and waiting for the sale, may cost you dearly! A dealer will be the quickest method, or an individual, if you get lucky. In order to triple in price, gold must go to over $1100.00 per ounce. Silver only to $15.00+. Which do you think is more likely? Sounds like you are really trying to talk yourself into Numismatic coins. We've told you all we can. A friend of mine once said "You can't tell some people that the fire is hot, you just have to let them walk in, and figure it out for themselves"



Ok, thanks alot.
So where to I buy silver/gold? Internet? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of bar versus coin versus junk? Also, is there any difference on profits with American Eagle vs Canadian Maple vs etc.?

Besides, does bullion = bar in English? In French I only saw "lingot".

PS: I was stuck with numismatic because I didn't knew it was that hard finding an interested buyer (not dealer). Still an option... ;)

[hoarder]

Ok, thanks alot.
So where to I buy silver/gold? Internet? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of bar versus coin versus junk?

Besides, does bullion = bar in English? In French I only saw "lingot".

PS: I was stuck with numismatic because I didn't knew it was that hard finding an interested buyer (not dealer). Still an option... ;)
You can buy silver at:

http://www.tulving.com/
http://www.bulliondirect.com/index.jsp
http://www.scpm.com/goldsilverbullion.php

Pat attention to shipping costs.

The generic 1 oz "rounds" are also bullion.

The best bargain right now is bags of 90% "junk" silver pre 1965 US coins, but any silver bullion will do. Pay as close to spot as possible.

Gold is ok for people who have tons of paper money to invest and no place to store silver. Silver will give far better returns, IMO.

[IrishGold]

A source (http://coins.to/generic1.html) I had that made me wonder about numismatic was saying that rare coins permitted more profits. Is it possible to sell numismatic coins easily other than by dealers (auctions...)?

Someone knows if in 1929 numismatic coins gave less profit than generic coins?



If I buy silver or gold, where do you propose me to buy all this? Online? Should I buy gold/silver in bars, coins? I don't understand why almost-scrap silver would be more worth it... Also, why is silver more undervalued than gold? Will gold go up more in a crisis?

PS: Any source to read from is appreciated :)
Someone knows if in 1929 numismatic coins gave less profit than generic coins?
Probably, but you need to do the research yourself. It will be good practice.

"If I buy silver or gold, where do you propose me to buy all this?"
I thoiught I answered this. I gave you 4 websites!
Buy 90% silver coins from: http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html (http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html)

"Also, why is silver more undervalued than gold?"
It just is, live with it until you have studied it more. Then you can answer that question yourself.

"Will gold go up more in a crisis?"
No

"Any source to read from is appreciated"
Read all that has ever been posted here on GIM, except for the jokes.

[GreenFrog]

Don't get mad, Irish...

I have university within all this so didn't got the time to explore everything (nor to sleep), and forgot a few things, that's all.
Now I just hope the other links will work within Canada.
I'll read everything.

[IrishGold]

I'm not mad GreenFrog, I just don't like repeating asked and answered questions.

As I said in my first post, everything written here is opinion. Study what others have to say, and then pick and choose what feels right for you. No one can live your life for you. You have to make the decisions based on your comfort level in taking risks.

Someone here could tell you to invest your whole $10,000 in South African gold mining stock and you may feel right at home doing that. I wouldn't. Others will tell you to buy $10,000 worth of 90% or 40% silver coins and you may be comfortable with that. I would. But you have to make the decision yourself.

Be sure that what ever you buy, you get all the (costs, shipping, handling, insurance) and any other costs that you are expected to pay. Be sure the seller knows you are in Canada. Buy in Canada at a local dealer if you can. At least check them out for price comparisons

[Scorpio]

GreenFrog, relax and take your time.
You don't need to invest it all right now because you are afraid of missing the boat.
Firstly, things have been on a tear lately, and it would be wise to study a little technical action first. Anyone worth their salt will tell you to buy on the dips and sell into strength.
This bull is going to last for years, there will be more major setbacks along the way.
Read as much as you can, there are many gold sites with a great number of people with genuine market knowledge.

If it is all too overwhelming for you at this time, dump the funds into someone like Tocqueville, and let them manage it for you until you are comfortable on your own. They do an excellent job.

Don't be in such a rush to lose your fiat. Numismatics are not the place to be. Kinda like trying to buy a Monet to hang over your couch, not the time or the situation for you IMO.

My dull old physical holdings are up overall over 25% in real terms, inclusive of shipping costs.

Many here subscribe to the viewpoint that a full portfolio includes some physical product, and stocks in PM's. The levels within a portfolio are all based on personal risk and emotional tolerance shall we say.

We all learn from each other on a daily basis, and some of us have been doing this for quite some time, so what is the rush?

Good Luck.

[Welsh Gold Hoarder]

GreenFrog, relax and take your time.
You don't need to invest it all right now because you are afraid of missing the boat.
Firstly, things have been on a tear lately, and it would be wise to study a little technical action first. Anyone worth their salt will tell you to buy on the dips and sell into strength.
This bull is going to last for years, there will be more major setbacks along the way.
Read as much as you can, there are many gold sites with a great number of people with genuine market knowledge.

If it is all too overwhelming for you at this time, dump the funds into someone like Tocqueville, and let them manage it for you until you are comfortable on your own. They do an excellent job.

Don't be in such a rush to lose your fiat. Numismatics are not the place to be. Kinda like trying to buy a Monet to hang over your couch, not the time or the situation for you IMO.

My dull old physical holdings are up overall over 25% in real terms, inclusive of shipping costs.

Many here subscribe to the viewpoint that a full portfolio includes some physical product, and stocks in PM's. The levels within a portfolio are all based on personal risk and emotional tolerance shall we say.

We all learn from each other on a daily basis, and some of us have been doing this for quite some time, so what is the rush?

Good Luck.

Excellent advice regarding numismatic silver or gold.

Not recommended for the amature as an investiment vehicle - at all. It is a highly specialized field that requires many years of study on coins specifically and on how to manuver successfully in and out of a fickle and hyped market. Not for the faint of heart and NOT recommended as an investment. Numismatic coins are for hobbists/collectors...

[lorenzo_n16]

Go and read "The ABC's of Gold Investing" by Michael Kosares. It's a very good basic book, and will answer all of your questions and more. You can find it for $15 on Amazon.

[GreenFrog]

Thx. It's relieving to hear I don't need to rush against FIAT...

Then I have three clear questions:

- How can I sell back coins to get money? How much time does it take?

- With a big bag of silver coins, what do we do?... Just let it as it is and sell the bag later? Sell each coin separately?

- I searched for more than two hours and I fall asleep now.... if you know how to find a dealer in Canada, just say... There's NOTHING online :( It'll be hard to sell anything fast enough if there isn't a place to trade.... I can attest that outside US it seems lots of trouble to get physical gold...


The guy who read the most and sleeps on his keyboard,
Frog.

[IrishGold]

In what part of Canada are you?
If in Qubec, here is one I found on my first search.
http://cpnum.qc.ca/

[GreenFrog]

I'm from Quebec, but these guys aren't selling gold nor silver. Purely numismatic, so you'll like them ;)

[IrishGold]

Sorry, you are right. I didn't look at the site long enough!