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Halophyte
09-26-2006, 12:50 AM
Legal Tender and the Civil War
by Jacob G. Hornberger, November 2000

FACED WITH A LACK of Northern enthusiasm for his war against the South, President Lincoln resorted to drastic means to finance his war effort. If Lincoln had resorted to a traditional method of government finance — taxation — he knew that he might be faced with tax riots among the people of the North. And he knew that if he relied on another traditional method — government borrowing — the government-issued notes would soon be trading at a deep discount as a result of the inflation of the notes.

Thus, Lincoln and the U.S. Congress resorted to a method of government finance on which tyrannical governments throughout history had relied. They authorized an increase in the issuance of government notes and then ordered that the notes be accepted by everyone at face value, even if they were depreciating in value in the marketplace. It was the first time since the enactment of the Constitution in 1787 that a legal-tender law had been imposed on the American people.

Throughout history, people have suffered the ravages of government debasement of their currency. Inflation has been a time-honored way for governments to plunder their citizenry in a secret, insidious manner.

Prior to the invention of the printing press, people used gold, silver, and copper coins as their media of exchange. At times there were private minters who would coin money and certify its quality and fineness. For example, a private minter might issue a one-ounce gold coin, certifying that it did in fact contain exactly one ounce of gold. If the minter had a good reputation, the coin would trade in the marketplace at face value — that is, as one ounce of gold.

Realizing that there was a profit to be made in the coining business, kings began monopolizing the enterprise. The king would issue the coins and certify their quality. (Oftentimes, they even put their pictures on the coins to give them an aura of quality.)


Clipping the coin

But as everyone knows, the needs of government are always insatiable. The first resort was to taxation to increase revenues, but there is usually a limit to how much people will permit themselves to be taxed. Thus, kings discovered another ingenious way to plunder their citizenry. They began “clipping the coin” before it was released into the marketplace. They would shave a little bit off the edges or, in flagrant cases, simply punch a hole in the coin and then accumulate the extra gold and make a new coin out of it. New money out of thin air!

Gradually, however, people would realize that their coin contained less than what had been certified on the coin. The result was that the king’s coin would begin trading at a discount — that is, trading for less than one ounce, which of course was a tremendous insult to the honor of the king. To remedy the situation, he would order that all his coins be accepted at their face value, despite the fact that the coins contained less than that amount of gold as a result of the “clipping.”

The invention of the printing press made political plunder even easier. The process began with government’s simply borrowing funds in the marketplace and delivering a government note in return. Thus, for example, the government would borrow 10 one-ounce gold coins and issue a note promising to repay the lender 10 one-ounce gold coins. It was always understood that the money was the gold coin and the note was simply a promise to repay the money.

What would happen if a government began issuing an ever-increasing supply of promissory notes and using them to purchase items in the marketplace? The notes would begin trading at a discount owing to the uncertainty of repayment. For example, suppose a government issued an overabundance of promissory notes for 10 gold coins. As people in the marketplace began discovering this inflation of notes, merchants would accept the note as worth, for example, only 9 gold coins.

So, how did governments react when their notes began trading at a discount? They would make their notes legal tender, requiring people to accept them at face value rather than at market value.

Under the Articles of Confederation, the American people had suffered the ravages of paper money and legal-tender laws. Remember the phrase “not worth a Continental”? It referred to the paper money that the Continental Congress had issued in ever-increasing amounts.

Thus, when the Constitution was enacted, the Founders were very familiar with the horrible abuses of inflation, paper money, and legal-tender laws that governments had perpetrated on their citizenry throughout history. By means of the Constitution, the Founders made certain that the American people would never have to experience the monetary tyranny that people throughout history had suffered.

But the Framers failed to anticipate one thing: a president who would assume dictatorial powers and who would ignore both the Constitution and the dictates of the Supreme Court, considering them simply inconvenient interferences with his dictatorship. They failed to anticipate Abraham Lincoln, the man who is portrayed in every public school across America as a person who had great reverence for the law and the rights of the people.


Money and the Constitution

The Constitution called into existence a federal government whose powers were limited to those listed in the Constitution. If a power wasn’t enumerated, it couldn’t be exercised. There were several express provisions with respect to money that were clear and unequivocal. The states were expressly prohibited from making anything but gold and silver coin a medium of exchange. The states were also prohibited from issuing “bills of credit,” a term denoting paper money.

The federal government was given the power to borrow (and tax) but not the power to emit bills of credit. The states were prohibited from impairing the obligation of contracts and the federal government was not given a power to impair contracts. The federal government was also not given the power to enact legal-tender laws. The power that the federal government was expressly given was the power to coin money and to regulate the value of such money.

Thus, from 1787 through 1862, the established media of exchange for the American people were primarily gold and silver coins. State and local governments had the power to tax and borrow; and the indebtedness was simply represented by notes which promised to repay the amount of gold (or silver) borrowed. Governments knew that if they overissued the notes, they would begin trading at a discount in the marketplace.


Lincoln’s legal-tender law

Lincoln knew that Northerners would be unlikely to go along with the level of taxation needed to finance his war. Thus he resorted to the process that dictators throughout history had resorted to: printing money. And to ensure that the inflation did not interfere with his ability to continue issuing an ever-increasing supply of notes, he resorted to the final act of monetary tyranny: he made the notes legal tender for all debts, public and private.

Here’s what Lincoln’s act did to people in the private sector. Let’s assume that John Doe had lent the Pennsylvania Railroad $10,000 in gold coin and that the debt was represented by a railroad promissory note pledging to pay Doe $10,000 in gold coin. Lincoln then begins issuing government promissory notes, let’s say, in denominations of $10,000. As an increasing number of notes are issued, they begin trading at a discount in the marketplace, e.g., $5,000.

What Lincoln did with his legal-tender law was entitle the railroad to repay John Doe, who was owed $10,000 in gold, with government notes having a (depreciated) value of $5,000 in gold. Doe was required by law to accept the depreciated notes in full payment of his debt.

After the war ended, the issue reached the U.S. Supreme Court in the famous case of Hepburn v. Griswold. In a 4–3 decision, the Court held that Lincoln’s legal-tender law violated the Constitution of the United States. (At that time, the Court consisted of eight justices. The reason there were only seven votes was that Justice Robert Grier had retired shortly before the judgment was announced. Before his retirement, however, he had expressed his agreement with the judgment of unconstitutionality.)

Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, who interestingly had served as Lincoln’s secretary of the treasury when the legal-tender law was being enforced, delivered the opinion of the court. Chase pointed out that there was no express power in the Constitution authorizing legal-tender laws. And he rejected the notion that the express power to wage war included an implied power to enact legal-tender legislation, observing that the Constitution expressly gave the government the powers to tax and borrow to finance its wars. Addressing the issue of legalized theft, Chase wrote:

We confess ourselves unable to perceive any solid distinction between such an Act and an Act compelling all citizens to accept, in satisfaction of all contracts for money, half or three-quarters or any other proportion less than the whole value actually due, according to their terms.... We are obliged to conclude that an Act making mere promises to pay dollars a legal tender in payment of debts previously contracted ... is prohibited by the Constitution.


The Court’s reversal

Fifteen months later, however, the decision was overturned in the case of Knox v. Lee. Recall that four justices had voted in favor of unconstitutionality and three had dissented, with Justice Grier, who had expressed agreement with the majority, having retired before the final vote was taken.

In the meantime, Congress had expanded the size of the Court to nine justices. Thus, President Grant got to name two persons to the Court and he knew that both of the lawyers he nominated favored the constitutionality of the legal-tender laws.

In one of the most disgraceful acts in the history of the Supreme Court, the new majority voted to reconsider the matter and, behaving more like a legislature than a court, overruled Hepburn v. Griswold and upheld the constitutionality of Lincoln’s legal-tender law.

In his dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen J. Field referred to the politics of the matter: “I shall not comment upon the causes which have led to a reversal of that judgment. They are patent to everyone.”

Commenting on the Founders’ understanding of evils of inflation, Justice Field wrote,

The statesmen who framed the Constitution ... had seen in the experience of the Revolutionary period the demoralizing tendency, the cruel injustice, and the intolerable oppression of a paper currency not convertible on demand into money, and forced into circulation by legal tender provisions and penal enactments.

Referring to the political immorality associated with paper money and legal tender, Field said,

There are unchangeable principles of right and morality, without which society would be impossible, and men would be but wild beasts preying upon each other, so there are fundamental principles of eternal justice, upon the existence of which all constitutional government is founded, and without which government would be an intolerable and hateful tyranny.

Commenting on the federal repudiation of debts resulting from legal-tender laws, Field wrote,

Whenever the fulfillment of the obligation in the manner stipulated is refused, and acceptance of something different from that stipulated is enforced against the will of the creditor, a breach of faith is committed; and to the extent of the difference of the value between the thing stipulated and the thing which the creditor is compelled to receive, there is repudiation of the original obligation. I am not willing to admit that the Constitution, the boast and glory of our country, would sanction or permit any such legislation. Repudiation in any form, or to any extent, would be dishonor, and for the commission of this public crime no warrant, in my judgment, can ever be found in that instrument.

In a later case upholding the legal-tender law, Juilliard v. Greenman, Field concluded his dissent with the following prophecy:

From the decision of the court I see only evil likely to follow. There have been times within the memory of all of us when the legal tender notes of the United States were not exchangeable for more than one-half of their nominal value. The possibility of such depreciation will always attend paper money. This inborn infirmity no mere legislative declaration can cure. If Congress has the power to make the notes a legal tender and to pass as money or its equivalent, why should not a sufficient amount be issued to pay the bonds of the United States as they mature? Why pay interest on the millions of dollars of bonds now due, when Congress can in one day make the money to pay the principal? And why should there be any restraint upon unlimited appropriations by the government for all imaginary schemes of public improvement, if the printing press can furnish the money that is needed for them?


The 20th century

Little could Field know that in the 20th century, the ravages of paper money would lead to the Great Depression, President Franklin Roosevelt’s nullification of gold clauses in contracts, his confiscation of gold, and his attempt to pack the Supreme Court with cronies who would do his bidding. And that the American people would ultimately be saddled with an irredeemable paper money that would be used to surreptitiously confiscate their wealth and savings by the federal government, decade after decade.

How many Americans know that the root of American monetary tyranny lies with Abraham Lincoln, a president who refused to permit the Constitution to stand in the way of his tyranny?

Tn...Andy
09-26-2006, 07:17 AM
I know all about ole "honest" Abe.

Puppet for the Northern and English bankers.

John Wilkes Booth was simply 5 years too late.

Anty Ep
09-26-2006, 12:53 PM
Nice article Haplo, very worthwhile reading.

My great-grandfather had three older siblings who all died as cannon fodder for the Union infantry. I spit on Abe Lincoln's grave.

Tn...Andy
09-26-2006, 04:00 PM
I spit on Abe Lincoln's grave.

Take a number.....get in line.

mozkill
09-27-2006, 07:54 PM
ok, Im confused.

I thought lincoln created greenbacks to AVOID BORROWING FROM THE BRITISH BANKS and making money through taxation would have been his 3rd option.

And so this article is bullshit from the beginning. I am glad that our government at least TRIED to create its own money even though that was soon changed a few decades later.

Tn...Andy
09-27-2006, 08:57 PM
You must love that wallet full of "legal tender", huh ?


What's "BS" about the article ? .....printing fiat is printing fiat.......I can't see where it matters much WHO is doing the printing or issuing......the effect is the same.

IF the war was Soooooooo just, why didn't he just raise taxes to pay for it ??

Instead, he had fiat printed and basically stole from the public the same way the FED does today.

des00s
10-01-2006, 01:11 AM
You are correct Mozkill. Both Lincoln and Andrew Jackson are perhaps the two most anti-banker presidents that ever lived. There is a credible theory that the issuing of greenbacks is what led to his assassination by the money movers.


Lincoln's "Greenbacks"
(And Why That Killed Him)
Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 11 Num. 34


Writes Dr. R.E. Search in Lincoln: Money Martyred (Omni Publications, PO Box 900566, Palmdale, CA 93590), "The struggle that was to rid the country of human slavery of the black race, however, was also to fasten upon the whole nation an economic or money slavery, which has endured to the present time..."
Abraham Lincoln and his Treasury Secretary, Salmon P. Chase (Chase Bank later named after him) went to the New York bankers "and applied for loans to the Government to carry on the [Civil] war; the bankers replying, 'Well, war is a hazardous business, but we can let you have it [the loans] at from 24 percent to 36 percent.'" (Dr. R.E. Search)
Appleton Cyclopedia (1861), page 296, states: "The money kings wanted 24 percent to 36 percent interest for loans to our government to conduct the Civil War." (qtd. in Search's book)
President Lincoln and Secretary Chase were outraged at the usurious interest, and refused the offer.
Lincoln wrote to an old friend, Colonel Dick Taylor in Chicago, and asked for advice. His friend told him to "get Congress to pass a bill authorizing the printing of full legal tender treasury notes or greenbacks." (qtd. in Search's book)
60 million dollars of full legal tender greenbacks were issued. "All were taken at par and never appreciably fell below par at any time..." (Dr. R.E. Search)
Lincoln referred to these greenbacks as "the greatest blessing the people of this Republic [have] ever had." (qtd. in Search's book)
But as soon as Lincoln began issuing the greenbacks, "the bankers and money changers saw that unless they could stop that sort of thing they were 'sunk' as far as ever being able to issue money again themselves." (Dr. R.E. Search)
The banksters "had been able to fool and hoodwink England, and keep her in bondage for 168 years, and they wanted very much to continue, and to add the balance of the world to their conquest; making the people everywhere economic serfs, working for them." (ibid.)
From the London Times:
If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks]... should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the world. The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe. [qtd. in Search's book]
The Bank of England/Rothschilds (do not be deceived by name, "Bank of England"; Bank of England was/is a private bank) issued, and distributed to American banksters, the following document, quoted in part below:
The Hazard Circular
Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power, and chattel slavery abolished. This, I and my European friends are in favor of, for slavery is but the owning of labor, and carries with it the care of labor, while the European plan, led on by England, is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages.
The great debt that capitalists will see to it is made out of the [Civil] war must be used to control the value of money. To accomplish this, the Government bonds must be used as a banking basis.
We are now waiting for the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States to make this recommendation. It will not do to allow greenbacks, as they are called, to circulate as money any length of time, as we cannot control that, but we can control the bonds and through them the bank issues. [qtd. in Dr. Search's book]
Slavery is but the owning of labor, and carries with it the care of labor.
A "new, improved system" of slavery was being born. Gustavus Myers (a "leftist") corroborates this in his book, History of the Great American Fortunes: "...chattel slavery could not compete in efficiency with white labor... more money could be made from the white laborer, for whom no responsibility of shelter, clothing, food and attendance had to be assumed than from the Negro slave, whose sickness, disability or death entailed direct financial loss."
"The perfect slave thinks he's free." That was the "new, improved system" for exploiting labor. (Currently, a further refinement is the use of temporary labor.)
Abraham Lincoln was "the man who first proved that government could issue its own paper money, legally, honorably, and rightfully, and make it full legal tender for all debts, both public and private..." Was Lincoln "a dangerous man from the [bankers] point of view? Could they have continued their knavery, trickery, bribery, and destructive work... if Lincoln had lived?" (Dr. R.E. Search)

Halophyte
10-01-2006, 01:19 AM
Printing paper fiat money was a way to counterfiet a way to war and subjucate free states into a central fascist government that eventually sold out the American people's property and the fruits of their labor to private international banking interest.

Once a government steps across the line and prints paper (and orders its people to take it in payment for gold and silver) in order to fund violence, in order to consolidate governing powers ..... it's called communism.

End of subject.


.

des00s
10-01-2006, 02:00 AM
Point taken.

jingles
10-02-2006, 07:42 PM
Yup, Both the north and the south printed fiat.

mozkill
10-04-2006, 07:56 PM
The article at the beginning of this thread is a perfect example of how an seemingly rock solid argument can be made from a simple manipulation of facts. I agree, Lincolns greenbacks were better than using British money but that still doesn't excuse Lincoln from printing fiat in the first place.

How else would the war have been financed? Was the war 'caused' by the bankers? Could there have been a way to not have had a civil war?

Tn...Andy
10-04-2006, 08:01 PM
Could there have been a way to not have had a civil war ?


Sure.....when the South left, Lincoln could have simply accepted it under the same conditions the colonies left GB.....the right of people to self determine their form of government.

Instead, he chose not to return Ft. Sumpter to South Carolina, resupplied it and played "In your face" games......and waited for an incident as an excuse to retaliate.

He had to 'save' the taxbase....er, I mean UNION !

jingles
10-05-2006, 09:17 PM
You make a good point mozkill,
There would be very few wars without fiat. Print the money now, and make the people pay for it later.

GREENSILVERHORN
10-05-2006, 09:58 PM
I Wonder?

How would HT respond to this thread?

It was a fiat war, before it was a hot war.

Paper covers gold.

Every monarchy will use it against another monarchy.

The best solution would have been to end it at the end of a war, but then everyone is having so much fun then.

Why rain on their parade.:smile:

Lincoln was a cool dude in my book. Realism is never a defecit.

des00s
10-06-2006, 01:03 AM
The makers of "The Money Masters" video that was praised by everyone on this site seem to imply that a return to the gold standard might not necessary be a good thing at this point in time, now that the central banks own all of the gold. It would be good for me, since I own gold... err... silver that is.

Abouthadit
11-01-2006, 09:51 AM
John Wilkes Booth was simply 5 years too late.

Amen brother, you are preaching to the choir. Tom Di Lorenzo did a good job of spelling it out in "The Real Lincoln".

silverJeep
11-01-2006, 10:40 AM
Could there have been a way to not have had a civil war ?

Sure.....when the South left, Lincoln could have simply accepted it under the same conditions the colonies left GB.....the right of people to self determine their form of government.


Have to disagree, if he had let the south secede, we would've been carved up by other countries years ago, or turned into a bunch of bannana repulics like central america. I think the only reason we've lasted this long is keeping it all together. If states are "allowed" to secede, what's to say we would have 50 bickering countries here (and no superpower). Which in reality would mean none, beacuse a REAL superpower country would've put an end to that long ago.

Lincoln faced problems no President before or after has faced. There were no past experiences to "pull from". Often we don't like our President, but when WE elect leaders, we're asking them to make the best desicions for our country. His bests decsion for the present and future, was to preserve the union. I agree. Did he everything right, of course not. NO President has. But to imply he was a shill for the bankers and only interested in taxes, I believe is false. He agonized over the war. Just look at the pictures at the beginning of his Presidency all the way up to his death.

Sorry, I'm a Lincoln fan.

Abouthadit
11-01-2006, 11:19 AM
Have to disagree, if he had let the south secede, we would've been carved up by other countries years ago, or turned into a bunch of bannana repulics like central america. I think the only reason we've lasted this long is keeping it all together. If states are "allowed" to secede, what's to say we would have 50 bickering countries here (and no superpower). Which in reality would mean none, beacuse a REAL superpower country would've put an end to that long ago.

Lincoln faced problems no President before or after has faced. There were no past experiences to "pull from". Often we don't like our President, but when WE elect leaders, we're asking them to make the best desicions for our country. His bests decsion for the present and future, was to preserve the union. I agree. Did he everything right, of course not. NO President has. But to imply he was a shill for the bankers and only interested in taxes, I believe is false. He agonized over the war. Just look at the pictures at the beginning of his Presidency all the way up to his death.

Sorry, I'm a Lincoln fan.

This is woulda-coulda-shoulda/if-then nonsense. Even the Europeans were expecting a secession because participation in government is voluntary. Our republic was a union of sovereign states, each of which had the right to disassociate through secession, with the northern states threatening secession long before S. Carolina was tricked in firing upon the Union. Lincoln crushed any remaining semblance of anti-federalism and destroyed the sovereignty of the states. Goodbye 10th Amendment. You say it all by stating you are a "fan". Nothing else needs to be said. You've been brainwashed and obviously choose to ignore the facts of history. Lincoln's strength was in his skillful use of rhetoric. He was the penultimate politician (better even than Slick Willie) who killed the republic via the War Of Northern Agression and through the implementation of Clay's Hamiltonian American Plan which, based on mercantilsm, helped bring about the financial collapse of many of the so-called internal improvements. Many states ended up amending their constitutions to prohibit any such private/public partnership as it would be called today. The financial disaster was immense. Lincoln should've been shot when he suspended habeas corpus (goodbye 4th, 5th and 8th Amendments) and put the publishers in jail (goodbye 1st Amendment). Were you aware that he also put a stop to the prisoner exchange because the northern soldiers were quitting and going home whereas the southerners would go back to fight. He agonized over the war? Please spare me the false tears. The trajedy at Andersonville is representative of how far Lincoln would go to "win". If the truth were taught at our gubbamint skools, we would not have slid down the slope to NWO as quickly as we have. States rights, the right to contract, and the right to private property have been gutted in large part due to Lincoln. The amendments to the Bill of Rights during that time were not even agreed to by the required number of states. Lincoln just "said so". The 16th created the income tax, and the 17th removed control of the states legislatures from electing US Senators. I could go on, but I think I have made my point. We probably would have been better off had the South seceded. Reapprochement would have then been based on the mutual benefit of all concerned and regional differences and strife likely would have been minimized. Remember government by, of, and for the people??

eat_beef
11-01-2006, 12:18 PM
Abouthadit,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I would suggest you look up the definition of penultimate.:aetsch:

Abouthadit
11-01-2006, 12:27 PM
Abouthadit,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I would suggest you look up the definition of penultimate.:aetsch:

Huh, wha.. that's weird.. the dictionary changed the meaning of my word... hmmph. :haha: :haha: Ok so I now I have to use plain old ulimate.

Thanks there Beefmeister. :bowdown: :rolleyes:

eat_beef
11-01-2006, 12:52 PM
Sorry, the donkey wasn't around and I couldn't resist filling his shoes. (Either as the resident English schoolmarm or as a Jack...:tongue: )

Abouthadit
11-01-2006, 12:55 PM
S' ok. I get on my their/there, your/you're soap box every so often myself.
:boxing: :rofl: :rofl: :wavey:

KingTheoden
11-01-2006, 02:20 PM
ok, Im confused.

I thought lincoln created greenbacks to AVOID BORROWING FROM THE BRITISH BANKS and making money through taxation would have been his 3rd option.

And so this article is bullshit from the beginning. I am glad that our government at least TRIED to create its own money even though that was soon changed a few decades later.

Okay, let me break this down.

1)

The North was just as manipulated as and actually, from my research, moreso than the Confederacy was. A vital book to read is The Real Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenza. Said historian points out that the Whigs Party (later the Republican Party) was the party that represented banking power and the establishment of an activist government. Lincoln, an alleged relative of the Rothschilds, was the pointman of dirigisme in America; tax monies from some people went to support and float others particularly those who benefited from public works project. So, it important to understand that the North was not free market; they were getting over 80% of their tax revenues from the Southern States but elected to spend almost all of it in favor of select Northern companies.

Lincoln's entire cabinent represented those with ties to the City of London and who held that it was necessary to use government to shape the economy. Even though there was a surface fight with England (they massed 40 000 troops in Canada at one point), England always served the Union's interests. Britain refused to send diplomats to the Confederate States, Britain was not active in sending aid to the South, and watched from the sidelines while America reduced itself from a free and powerful confederacy of states into a dictatorship.

Just because Lincoln chose to go the easy route i.e. issue fake fiat money in lieu of taking on loans does NOT mean that he was good. Remember, he did all this ultimately fund his war on the Constitution and Americans! That he did it independent of British loans is besides the fact. I mean for instance, if I am plotting to kill a bunch of people but instead of taking out a loan at a Federal Reserve System bank I issue promisary notes to friends and family, IT STILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT I AM PREPARING TO DO SOMETHING BAD!!!

It was a loose loose situation for freedom: the tyrant Lincoln issues fiat money and uses it to kill law-abiding Americans.


2)

It was not 'our' money. It was Lincoln's clique's money. They controlled the presses and thus our lives. All of those flowery speeches about 'money being the servant, not the master' were clever marketing tricks. Of course the fiat money system would be the master, not the servant! Once the ability to issue script is given over to a select few and we by law have to use it, it will take about two seconds before those are in charge of the fiat money to use it against the people and for their own gain.

It is unclear why Lincoln was assassinated however it probably related to his refusal to relinquish control over the Greenback; his gang wanted that territory but the rival Rotschild gain had their eye on the same. Look, it is gangster warfare. Lincoln was not killed because he was on 'our' side or supported freedom, that is certain.

Lincoln created a legacy of government manipulation of money through his Greenback and his National Bank system, a precursor to the Federal Reserve System. Prior to all of this nonsense, we the people really did have control over our own money. We could take our silver to the Mint to have it minted (certified) as weighing a particular amount and thus having a particular dollar value. Our government was never meant to go around printing bills of credit or fiat slips of cotton. It says clearly that the government can mint money. Period.

The Money Masters is a great production but G Edward Griffin is absolutely correct that it is stunning that the film praises Lincoln and fiat money.

The reason the South was forced to Seceed was because the North was, with English string pulling, robbing the South blind and refusing to let southern colonies join the United States while cramming the country with northern territories. There were plenty of agents in the South (ehem paging Judah Benjamin) and that is in large part why the Confederacy lost the war and was conquered. Bottom line: Lincoln + fiat money = TYRANNY.

KingTheoden
11-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Have to disagree, if he had let the south secede, we would've been carved up by other countries years ago, or turned into a bunch of bannana repulics like central america. I think the only reason we've lasted this long is keeping it all together. If states are "allowed" to secede, what's to say we would have 50 bickering countries here (and no superpower). Which in reality would mean none, beacuse a REAL superpower country would've put an end to that long ago.

Lincoln faced problems no President before or after has faced. There were no past experiences to "pull from". Often we don't like our President, but when WE elect leaders, we're asking them to make the best desicions for our country. His bests decsion for the present and future, was to preserve the union. I agree. Did he everything right, of course not. NO President has. But to imply he was a shill for the bankers and only interested in taxes, I believe is false. He agonized over the war. Just look at the pictures at the beginning of his Presidency all the way up to his death.

Sorry, I'm a Lincoln fan.

See my response to MozKill. The South was forced to leave because the North was robbing it blind. Furthermore, I highly doubt we would have faced the same outcome of the Latin American banana republics because it is far more likely that had the North let the South go, the two confederacies would have reconcilled or at least accepted a mutual defense pact.

I take issue with your comment pertaining to 'how long we have lasted.' We have not been a free country since 1861! It has been a drip drip drip approach to total absolute tyranny but it started long ago. Reconstruction, the 'progressive' era, the reign of King Roosevelt II, the National Security State since WWII, etc. etc. Have we had more freedom than other countries? Sure, but that does not mean that we were definitely free. The norm is history is tyranny, tin pot kings, and general government thuggary. A truly free country is an ellusive and juicy prize that we have to constantly fight for and defend (when we get it).

The Argent Dragon
11-01-2006, 05:32 PM
You must love that wallet full of "legal tender", huh ?
......................
Instead, he had fiat printed and basically stole from the public the same way the FED does today.

Yep, 'ole Abe is the father of the Greenback......whoa - my modern fiats have greenbacks too, how 'bout that !?!? :haha:

Damn money printers.......:mad:

THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT !

Senior Silverio
11-01-2006, 08:30 PM
ok, Im confused.

I thought lincoln created greenbacks to AVOID BORROWING FROM THE BRITISH BANKS and making money through taxation would have been his 3rd option.

And so this article is bullshit from the beginning. I am glad that our government at least TRIED to create its own money even though that was soon changed a few decades later.

Paper money was despised by the early Americans. The Constitution only gives silver & gold the right to be called money. Very reluctantly it was allowed that the metalsmiths to hold larger quantities of silver or gold and offer a piece of paper--a promissary note of sorts--that guaranteed that such & such amount of gold was held in that persons name. Thus began that wonderful, dishonest practice of giving away pieces of paper with no metal behind them and early banks were created. In general, paper money was still despised and looked upon with great suspicion--especially since it ran so contrary to Constitutional authority.

Lincoln was a traitor. Everyone cloaks the Civil War as being ONLY about slavery (which is a disgusting institution, by the way), when probably the major issue on the table was the argument over states rights. Lincoln wanted to have a central govermment that was powerful--more powerful than the states. His philosophy of government exceeded the bounds of that which was allowed by the Constitution, which called for a central goverment with very specific roles and not a bit more. If the state was being pushed around by the government, the state, by right of the Constitution could tell the central gov't to go to He**. This did happen many times since we were to be a United group of states with a central goverment.

Now today we have his legacy--a bloated, behemoth of a Federal gov't, with all of the states quaking at it's power, while its supreme court keeps taking away laws of the people, by the people away from them because they are--now let's all collectively laught--"unconstitutional". In the meanwhile, our gov't is breaking about a million laws and the founding fathers are turning over in their graves. When we sold our sovereignty to the "Federal Bank", they tried to control something that history has shown NEVER has worked--the fiat creation of money. "nothing from nothing leaves nothing", the song goes (that kind of dates me from the younger folk). The greenback is nothing but a fraud, has always been a fraud. It doesn't represent wealth--it represents DEBT, and they just keep burning out those green backs that are worth not even the paper they are printed on. It costs more to make them than what they are worth. All the greenback is is faith. As long as the other countries (who's fate we rest in) decide to still maintain faith in the U.S., then that wobbly piece of paper, with its I.V. drip hangs on. But at soon as the world says "enough is enough"--good bye!!!!!!!!

Lincoln has always been heralded as such a hero of the south & slavery, yet her was only making a strategic political move. He said that if there was any way he could NOT put an end to slavery in the war, he would do so. His aim was to create a powerful, unconstitutional government under the guise (sp?) philanthropy & equality and succeeded. Slavery was going to be done away with no matter what. I know I'm sayin stuff that most of you already know better than I, buti just felt like saying it anyway.

SS

Abouthadit
11-01-2006, 10:51 PM
Paper money was despised by the early Americans. The Constitution only gives silver & gold the right to be called money. Very reluctantly it was allowed that the metalsmiths to hold larger quantities of silver or gold and offer a piece of paper--a promissary note of sorts--that guaranteed that such & such amount of gold was held in that persons name. Thus began that wonderful, dishonest practice of giving away pieces of paper with no metal behind them and early banks were created. In general, paper money was still despised and looked upon with great suspicion--especially since it ran so contrary to Constitutional authority.

Lincoln was a traitor. Everyone cloaks the Civil War as being ONLY about slavery (which is a disgusting institution, by the way), when probably the major issue on the table was the argument over states rights. Lincoln wanted to have a central govermment that was powerful--more powerful than the states. His philosophy of government exceeded the bounds of that which was allowed by the Constitution, which called for a central goverment with very specific roles and not a bit more. If the state was being pushed around by the government, the state, by right of the Constitution could tell the central gov't to go to He**. This did happen many times since we were to be a United group of states with a central goverment.

Now today we have his legacy--a bloated, behemoth of a Federal gov't, with all of the states quaking at it's power, while its supreme court keeps taking away laws of the people, by the people away from them because they are--now let's all collectively laught--"unconstitutional". In the meanwhile, our gov't is breaking about a million laws and the founding fathers are turning over in their graves. When we sold our sovereignty to the "Federal Bank", they tried to control something that history has shown NEVER has worked--the fiat creation of money. "nothing from nothing leaves nothing", the song goes (that kind of dates me from the younger folk). The greenback is nothing but a fraud, has always been a fraud. It doesn't represent wealth--it represents DEBT, and they just keep burning out those green backs that are worth not even the paper they are printed on. It costs more to make them than what they are worth. All the greenback is is faith. As long as the other countries (who's fate we rest in) decide to still maintain faith in the U.S., then that wobbly piece of paper, with its I.V. drip hangs on. But at soon as the world says "enough is enough"--good bye!!!!!!!!

Lincoln has always been heralded as such a hero of the south & slavery, yet her was only making a strategic political move. He said that if there was any way he could NOT put an end to slavery in the war, he would do so. His aim was to create a powerful, unconstitutional government under the guise (sp?) philanthropy & equality and succeeded. Slavery was going to be done away with no matter what. I know I'm sayin stuff that most of you already know better than I, buti just felt like saying it anyway.

SS

Bravo. :applause_ :applause_ :applause_ :applause_ :applause_

Lord_Sidious
09-27-2007, 01:24 PM
I read recently that the European bankers and the monarchs that they had under their thrawl, were concerned that America would become to affluent, too soon and had to be hobbled. What better way than to have a civil war interupt progress?
Much as I did to the republic to cause its downfall so I could institute the Empire.
See any paralells?

hugo_danner
10-26-2007, 07:24 PM
The makers of "The Money Masters" video that was praised by everyone on this site seem to imply that a return to the gold standard might not necessary be a good thing at this point in time, now that the central banks own all of the gold. It would be good for me, since I own gold... err... silver that is.

I was going to point that out. The Money Masters advocated a return to the Lincoln style greenbacks that are printed as "just enough" for citizens to use but no more. They were against a return to the gold standard as it has been manipulated in the past (by hoarding and contracting the money supply) and could (possibly) be again.