Confiscation BS from Broke.com

[money matters]

Saw a new editorial at another site many of us migrated from. Not on his personal site yet, so I will not post it here.

Same old trite crap about gold confiscation, Numismatic coins, and how since the "elite" like to play with numismatics the numies will be exempt.

Yesterday, Steve Quayle on his Q-files show ranted about numie dealers and sales of numies to the unsuspecting. While he sells some bullion coins, Q said he got a call from a woman who bought $27K of numies 2 mos ago from a dealer who went nameless, but was said to run a shortwave broadcasting operation . Dealer now offers $17K to woman who wants to sell.

Nice work, for the dealer. Nicer still to avoid being the steak on his table!

Confiscation has not been ordered or discussed in Congress. The kind of propaganda crap this guy is slinging is pure fear.

Anyone who calls themselves a "friend" of the PM community while touting numies as the solution to the non-problem of confiscation is no better than a midway shill steering the rubens to be fleeced.

Any website that promotes this kind of "opinion" as a timely and valuable professional insight which is of benefit to the PM community, is full of shit and making merchandise of its followers.

money matters

[AuNuggets]

AMEN.......I agree completely !! The numismatic hawks push their wares for one reason, and one reason only. Higher premiums = more profit for them. Numismatics are collectibles, NOT INVESTMENTS ! The ultimate end user is the collector, and when prices are pushed beyond reasonable levels by "investors", then the collector drops out of the game, and the market collapses ala early 70s, early 80s, and again post 1989 from which they have never fully recovered some 15 years later. The real problem is "ARBITRARY VALUES", with no real rhyme or reason at times.

If you are interested in the metals, stick with content as you focusing point, not collectability. Numismatics are a suckers game at best, with "divised scarcity" for the most part. The few exceptions are the truly rare KEY pieces and earlier coins pre mid-1800s. Few modern era coins (post 1900) are "rare", or even "scarce" in actual numbers.

The popular line with the confiscation crowd these days is that certain gold coins will be "exempt" from future confiscation efforts by the government, making it very clear that they are trying to scare potential investors into falling for the BS. The fact is, if the government wants to confiscate gold again (not likely as it is no longer considered "money" in official terms, and such a confiscation would send up red flags to the world that the dollar is toast), then what would keep the government from confiscating ALL of the gold? There is nothing concrete about ANY law, and they will change or re-arrange the "law" to suit their needs. Nothing will prevent them from taking the numismatics right along with the bullion if that's what they decide to do. They make the rules, they change the rules.

A popular online radio program originating from the west coast that talks daily about the precious metals is recently harping on the "advantages and benefits" of buying pre-1933 Swiss Helvetia 20 Franc gold coins "at around $120" so that your gold won't be confiscated in the future. Considering these coins are trading regularly for near their gold content of .1867 oz. fine gold, or around $78 per coin, their "bargain price" is only $42 over gold content PER COIN, or like paying $642 per ounce for what is effectively BULLION. These coins are in no way, shape, or form "scarce" or "rare", and are available in huge quantities. Another good example of spreading the bull, and raking in the sucker's money.........

Anytime you go to a "bullion dealer" seeking metals for the cheapest price and maximum content, and the dealer begins to tout numismatics in any form, best advice is to turn and go elsewhere. Such dealers have THEIR best interest in mind, and not yours.

[hoarder]

There may be two seperate motives at work in the confiscation scare tactics.

#1) selling numismatics at a high premium on the premise that it is exempt from confiscation.

#2) PM price supression by TPTB. What better and cheaper way to supress gold and silver than to suggest these investments will be confiscated?

I would suggest scrutinizing the dealers who use these tactics to guage if they have any connection with TPTB.

[Buster]

I couldn't agree with you more. You think Droke works for Goldman Sachs?

[gpond]

Personally, I do fear that a confiscation may occur. However, I agree completely with the other posters in this thread that using this pitch to sell "numies" is not cool.

I'm not a great student of history, but I am under the impression that the gold has been confiscated many many times before in many different civilizations. Can anyone correct me on this?

[StreetMind]

Agree. Believe there is much more risk in their messing with the deferred accounts than with confiscation of PMs in the near future.

StreetMind

[lhslancers]

The biggest rip-off going in the pm market today and always has been this bull$hit about semi-numismatic coins. This guy at a large dealer in Cali. tried to push $10 Indians on me. The mintage on this thing was over 5 million. This is a rare coin? One big hustle IMHO. You are either buying bullion or a truly rare coin or you're buying bull$hit.

[Maple Leaf Steve]

Good Posting AuNuggets I agree 100% with what you just said.

On that radio program they are also telling people that GW Bush's "Patriot Act" is being used to get names of people from bullion dealers who they have sold gold to. So that if the Federal Government ever has to confiscate gold again from the people in this country that they will have handy a nice "starters list" before the game even begins.

MLS

[gpond]

Good Posting AuNuggets I agree 100% with what you just said.

On that radio program they are also telling people that GW Bush's "Patriot Act" is being used to get names of people from bullion dealers who they have sold gold to. So that if the Federal Government ever has to confiscate gold again from the people in this country that they will have handy a nice "starters list" before the game even begins.

MLSBut they DO have a "starters list", don't they? As I posted before, I'm not pushing numismatics, and using scare tactics to do so is something I would detest.

However, I have seen nothing in this thread or others to even begin to convince me that confiscation will not occur -- AS IT HAS occurred many many times in the past. I don't relish these thoughts -- they scare crap out of me..

Still waiting for someone to give good reasons why it won't happen this time. So far I say, in desperate times if it fits the power interests, they will do it, as they always do. Hoping I'm wrong, and waiting for someone to tell me why I am wrong.
:banghead:

[Buster]

For what it's worth...

God I's sick of seeing the forums inundated with confiscation talk. That said, I don't blame people for being scared. I would ask you all to visualise confiscation for a moment, at its worst, because I believe that is what we are really concerned with.

We are concerned that the jackboots are gonna kick the doors in, ransack the house and comb the backyard with the latest metal detectors, with you and your family standing in the living room wondering if all that you hold dear is about to be taken away. I hate this, but I guess we need to "go there" just for the sake of what if.

If it ever gets to that point, you have to figure the home invaders will not stop with your bullion; while they're at it, they might as well take the jewelry, any loose cash, and while they're at it, why not the car, the boat and the house? Because once they start grabbing, they will not stop.

Should this nightmare script actually play out, life in America will not be worth living. It would mean the end for everyone, one way or another. Do I believe this will come to pass? I certainly hope not, and I do not believe that it will. But it could. Unless utter chaos is what TPTB are after, they would not light a fuse that would bring about the end of what we love about America: such as the expectation that the rule of law will prevail, that we do not live in a predator-filled jungle, that we are safe in our persons and possessions, and that our very homes and families are safe from invasion from our own government.

That is what we all expect of America, so why are we cringing in fear that it is no longer so? I think it is because there are people coming onto these forums and suggesting the worst, and that we should be very afraid. I say horse$hit, because when you get right down to it, tomorrow is never guaranteed. All you have is today, so live it in joy, and do not fret about all the things that could conceivably happen.

Sorry for the rant.

[gpond]

Buster,

Your rant is OK and appropriate. I'm not fear mongering personally, but planning could be in order. I don't see door-to-door searches necessarily. Instead I would imagine that they would simply make it illegal to own and everyone would be "required by law" to come forward. There might be some jack booted thugs making a few examples of a few folks...

[gpond]

Buster,

Your rant is OK and appropriate. I'm not fear mongering personally, but planning could be in order. I don't see door-to-door searches necessarily. Instead I would imagine that they would simply make it illegal to own and everyone would be "required by law" to come forward. There might be some jack booted thugs making a few examples of a few folks...I got interrupted so didn't finish.. If they made it illegal then you would have a choice to comply or be a criminal. I truly hope it doesn't come to this. Sorry you are sick of hearing about it. I think it is an important topic to consider. Keep your heads down, friends. Blend in and look like a sheeple... That's all I know to do.

gpond :sheep:

[IrishGold]

Still waiting for someone to give good reasons why it won't happen this time. So far I say, in desperate times if it fits the power interests, they will do it, as they always do. Hoping I'm wrong, and waiting for someone to tell me why I am wrong.
These are why you are wrong!

[hoarder]

Buster,
TPTB select people with the authoritarian personality disorder to promote as JBT's. Therefore, to some degree, JBT's must feel they are on the side of righteousness and law. This may prevent them from walking away with 14 year old girls along with the gold. JBT's for the most part have the attitude that they don't make the laws, just enforce them. They are not thinkers nor true thugs. They are puppets.

But I agree that we should not be intimidated by rumors of unconstitutional actions on their part. As long as the internet is free, they know they can't pull this one over on us, not confiscation or makind it illegal to hold. The Constition and open discussion on forums is very intimidating to them, as their numbers are few. By holding our metals without fear, we weaken their corrupt system.

[Buster]

GPond,

No need to be sorry. All I'm getting at is that the PM shorts want the longs to be second-guessing themselves, as they are less likely to stay long. We are helping them by giving the confiscation issue more energy. The more we keep that ball in play, the more they smile.

OK, we all know it could happen, and that it could take various forms. So take necessary precautions and move on...no need to overkill this thing. Every time the metals start to move, the same folks start a confiscation thread. Ignore it.

I think the people the shorts are concerned with are the newbies who weren't around earlier and cannot discern all the old hat stuff. Nothing like confiscation talk to scare them off.

I would much prefer to think about the smile on the long's faces when the metals really fly. Ye-hah!

[hoarder]

TPTB have more to worry about than we do.
The sheep are waking up about fiat money. Last week I recieved in change a 5 dollar bill with the handwritten words: "backed by thin air".
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the danger of losing everything to fiat collapse is far greater and harder to guard against than attempts to "confiscate" our secure possesions.
The more we tell people about the "federal" reserve and fiat money, the weaker their position to get political support for stealing our PM's. The internet is on our side, use it.

[RAZ]

Hey IrishGold, them's some pretty toys!

This confiscation thing has always bothered me too. Yes, there is a long history of "authorities" confiscating PMs when it seemed to suit their interests. FDR being the latest example right here in the good ol' US of A.

Burying your PMs is a good way to avoid confiscators. Of course, this means that you will have to necessarily don the mantle of the evil scofflaw. This act of non-compliance could get you a cage at the Guantanemo Hilton (no visits from Paris either!) with the more horrifying classification of terrorist (see paytriot akt I).

I may be off the mark here (won't be the first time, so I am willing to take the risk) but, perhaps it's time to engage in a "private trade network". What I mean by this is a network of people who are willing and able to both pay and accept PMs for goods and services.

Some people who build or retail toys like IrishGold pictured above are willing and able to engage in such trade. Obviously the folks here and on similar boards are capable and well-practiced in "running the numbers" to achieve equivalent valuations for goods and services. No one here is willing, at least at this point, to pay a 1oz. silver round for a loaf of bread. Maybe for a bottle of wine but, not for a loaf of bread.

I am talking about actual, physical bullion. Not those Norfed bucks or digital currencies. It must be physical to avoid surveillance and supervision by Uncle Sham.

Obviously this would have to be treated as a developing practice. There would be many limits as to what goods and services you could purchase now simply due to problems with people accepting PMs as currency. Burger King is not prepared or willing to "have it your way" by using PMs as currency. However, your local used car dealer might work with you. You must also accept the idea for now that there will no change back from your 1oz. round until such time as other metals are accepted into the growing currency scheme.

If you are already a manufacturer, retailer or offer a service are you willing to accept PMs as payment for your goods or service? If not, why not? Do you know your mint marks and alloys? Do you have a set of scales? Do you know your customers well enough? Tie you valuations to the dollar/PM spot price because many customers still value items in dollars so use their standard of reference. You'll probably need to regularly adjust your pricing until stable values are reached or the dollar dies.

As people see that this currency actually works and works well and realize the fraud and ever-depreciating value that the dollar represents they will be more likely to hang on to their PMs and resist attempts at confiscation.

Some people, maybe even some of you here, already engage in this practice of using PMs as currency. It's limited for now but, it is growing.

If HyperTiger and others are correct in their predictions of economic collapse, the dollar will worthless as a currency. PMs will be pressed into service as a currency. Unfortunately, it will most likely be in the form of jewelry rather than bullion sa jewelry is more commonly held. It would probably be a wise idea to get accustomed with alternative currencies and valuation prior to the onset of a disaster and the use of PMs as a currency would be a simple and relatively easy way to do it while we still have legal access to bullion.

Anyway, just an idea to chew on.

RAZ

[money matters]

As the fiat money system is the SUPREME CONFISCATION PLAN, why does anyone think TPTB will forget about the real deal, and leave that on the table as they loot their vassals and serfs?

Our leaders forget (if they ever recognized), that our "rights" under the constitution were conferred by God, not by the state. THEY ARE INALIENABLE! It is pretty sad when an auto tag motto must be touted as a philosophical hallmark but, LIVE FREE OR DIE says it all.

The Bastards pushing sovereigns or any other junk they price at 15% plus over spot, are simply chiselers who give real money a bad name. Anyone who thinks they have a "Kings-X" because they paid for a "collectable" is a fool. I just hope they also have their "get out of jail free card" on them when they are arrested.

I say Cliff Droke is ill advising his readers. He should also inform them that they truly need to buy a Monopoly game for each member of the family so each can get out of jail free and collect $200 as they pass go.

Money Matters

[gpond]

These are why you are wrong!No offense, IrishGold, and in fact you may be right...
But I got one word for you:

Waco.

[Maple Leaf Steve]

I think we should discuss confiscation issues on these forums.

Some people don't like discussing these issues and thats fine.

I've been collecting coins since 1968.

I've been shallow water metal detecting in lakes since 1990.

BTW Nice forum you guys have here.

MLS

[hoarder]

The power of suggestion is far more powerful than people realize. Since this force has been in the hands of TPTB, they have chosen to keep us ignorant of it's power so that they could continue to use it against us.

Let's use the power of suggestion to point out to everyone we meet just what fiat money is backed by. This would be wise use of our weapon.

This is a monetary war! The GIMs against the fiats!

Let's be careful with that "c" word, it can only harm us.

Good catch, Steve.

[IrishGold]

..................SNIP
The sheep are waking up about fiat money. Last week I recieved in change a 5 dollar bill with the handwritten words: "backed by thin air".
...............SNIP...................
Hey! I like this!!!!
From now on, every bill I hand out will be marked,
BACKED BY THIN AIR
I may even have a rubber stamp made for this!!!!

[IrishGold]

No offense, IrishGold, and in fact you may be right...
But I got one word for you:

Waco.Yes gpond, it very well may mean another Waco or another Ruby Ridge or even something even more heavy handed than either one of those atrocities.

However, they can not send a LEA to your door until it is against the law to own PM's and the "grace period" is over for turning them in. Starting from the time we get the first reports on the internet, of them even talking about signing that into law, and the knock on the first door for refusal, will be many, many weeks if not many, many months. Plenty of time to "make provisions" for not owning any when the time comes for it to be necessary.

[HistoryStudent]

Saw a new editorial at another site many of us migrated from. Not on his personal site yet, so I will not post it here.

Same old trite crap about gold confiscation, Numismatic coins, and how since the "elite" like to play with numismatics the numies will be exempt.

Yesterday, Steve Quayle on his Q-files show ranted about numie dealers and sales of numies to the unsuspecting. While he sells some bullion coins, Q said he got a call from a woman who bought $27K of numies 2 mos ago from a dealer who went nameless, but was said to run a shortwave broadcasting operation . Dealer now offers $17K to woman who wants to sell.

Nice work, for the dealer. Nicer still to avoid being the steak on his table!

Confiscation has not been ordered or discussed in Congress. The kind of propaganda crap this guy is slinging is pure fear.

Anyone who calls themselves a "friend" of the PM community while touting numies as the solution to the non-problem of confiscation is no better than a midway shill steering the rubens to be fleeced.

Any website that promotes this kind of "opinion" as a timely and valuable professional insight which is of benefit to the PM community, is full of shit and making merchandise of its followers.

money matters

Droke could work for the two stooges on TV he is so negative. The last confiscation was at the banks when gold was RECOGINIZED by everyone as money. That included the so-called raided "SAFE DEPOSIT" boxes that had paper FIAT FRN placed instead of the gold coin.

Gold would immediately develope a black market trippling the price. By the way, where do you think all those UN-MELTED $10 and $20 dollar US gold pieces came from? Dumb and dummer must have forgot to turn them in, right?

[Buster]

Well I don't know about you, but if I were asked to turn in my PMs, I certainly would. The only thing is, I don't have them anymore, because they were stolen. Yep, had 'em up in the closet in a box, and one day I noticed the box was gone. Just like that. Poof! It's OK though, I'm over it now, and don't have to think about that knock on the door...

[Bobcat]

Droke could work for the two stooges on TV he is so negative. The last confiscation was at the banks when gold was RECOGINIZED by everyone as money. That included the so-called raided "SAFE DEPOSIT" boxes that had paper FIAT FRN placed instead of the gold coin.

Gold would immediately develope a black market trippling the price. By the way, where do you think all those UN-MELTED $10 and $20 dollar US gold pieces came from? Dumb and dummer must have forgot to turn them in, right?
You have got it right HS, if gold and silver were made illegal, the situation would resemble the illegal drug trade or alcohol during prohibition, including huge price increases. Making pm's illegal would also signal to everyone that the fiat gig was over, and increase pm holders resolve to protect their last chance of economic survival. There are not enough gov. agents to enforce anything if the people are defiant and resolute, they only have power when the people are compliant.

I was in Nicaragua during the Sandinistas, and the gov. set the exchange rate at a fraction of what the blackmarket (freemarket) exchange was, and it was quite risky to trade on the freemarket, but you would be approached by business people anyway (not on the street). When peoples economic survival is on the line, chances will be taken.

[IrishGold]

Ya forgot one. I would just love to trip one of these just once.Oh yeah! .50 caliber! If you listen to the Marines, it's a good long range sniper weapon. I believe Carlos Hathcock still holds the record for a confirmed kill with one of those. I'm not sure what the distance was, but I think it was over 2000 yards.

[IrishGold]

What I can gather up - Confirmed at 2500 yds. Confirmed = key word, as I am sure you know.Yes, confirmed is the key. He stated that he knew his kills were actually over 200, but only 93 confirmed.
I was going to say 2500 yds, but was not sure, and couldn't find the reference right away. For those reading this and not having a feel for just how far this is, it is just 420 feet short of one and a half miles!

[rural_ghetto]

I am relatively new here, but I wanted to throw in my $0.02. If one really thinks that coins with numismastic value will not be confiscated, why not purchase lower grade (VF or so) British Sovereigns? I have about a dozen of these, all of which I purchased for less of a premium than I would have paid for Eagles or Maples. Four of them I was able to purchase on an online auction site for under spot.

[AuNuggets]

@ rural_ghetto......

That is just the problem...... Those types of coins have no numismatic value, and a confiscation will go after whatever TPTB want, not necessarily just non-numismatic coins. And who do you think will determine what is "numismatic" and what is "bullion"? It sure won't be up to the collector to decide. They will look at the face of things, past values and sales records, and see that you paid near melt value, so you automatically have no arguement that these coins are "numismatic" in nature. Regardless of what the hypesters/dealers tell you about the pre-'33 European fractional gold coins, very few of them actually have any value above bullion content. You can regularly buy these coins in quantity at spot to 25 cents over spot, but alot of the internet and telemarketing dealers are selling them for upwards of 30 or 40 dollars OVER THEIR GOLD CONTENT!...... and for coins that contain around 1/5 to 1/4 ounce of gold or less. It's a simple matter of hyping up the product to stretch the profit margins to their limits. If you are paying more than 5% or so over melt, you are getting ripped off, plain and simple. There are a few types and dates that have some numismatic scarcity, but you are not likely to get those from the mass-marketing groups touting these coins. Caveat!